The Grim Reality of Israeli Terrorism

[Chris Alger]

Yesterday, on NPR, Kennedy School of Government Dean Joseph Nye voiced his "realist" concerns about Israel's practice of targeting civilians. "I think it's now gone to a stage where you're killing enough innocent children that you're beginning to radicalize the moderates and that's not in Israel's interest or our interest in the long run." This is about the closest I've seen in the mainstream press to outrage over Israel's mass murdering of innocents.

This might change (although I doubt it), as even the NY Times caught up to the foreign press by reporting today on an Israeli massacre last Saturday of villagers from Marwaheen. Note the coordinated efforts at murder typical of the most pitiless and premeditated terrorists: <ul type="square">When Israeli loudspeakers warned villagers to evacuate the village of Marwaheen last Saturday, the families packed their belongings and headed for safety. More than 23 of them piled into a pickup and drove toward Tyre, with the brothers trailing behind. Another group set off for a nearby United Nations observation post, but were promptly turned away.

As the pickup raced to Tyre, Ali al-Ghanam said, Israeli boats shelled their convoy, hitting the car and injuring the women and children in the back. But within minutes an Israeli helicopter approached the car, firing a missile that blew the truck to pieces as the passengers struggled to jump out, he said.

His brother Mohammad, his wife and their six children, were killed instantly along with several of their relatives. The only survivor in the car was the brothers’ 4-year-old niece, who survived with severe burns to much of her body.[/list]The death toll was 20 civilians, including nine children, although not exactly "killed instantly," as the Times put it: "The local fire brigade could not put out the fires as they all burned alive in the inferno." Robert Fisk

Here are some photos of the carnage, which aren't for the squeamish: link

As of yesterday, Fisk reports, "there has been no apology or expression of regret from Israel for these deaths."

There is no suggestion that any of these victims had anything to do with the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers or firing rockets into Israel, or were involved in Hizbollah. Their "crime" was probably to live in the village closest to the spot where the Israeli soldiers were kidnapped. Or it might have been that they appealed to a local UN compound for shelter on their way to Tyre, shortly after which Israel attacked. This would be reminiscent of the Qana slaughter the last time (Operation Grapes of Wrath, 1996) Israel tried to stampede civilians to pressure the government of Lebanon (20% of Lebanon's population now being displaced). In that case, 800 refugees refused to follow Israel's script of heading north an instead found shelter in a UN compound. Israel then "accidentally" fired 13 shells into the compound, killing 102 civilians. (UN and Amnesty International investigations concluded the shelling was deliberate; Israel refused to cooperate).

For those who have few moral qualms about funding terror, the practical consequences can be a lot worse than radicalizing moderates, as Nye puts it. There are plenty of people with real power who can be swayed. According to James Bamford, in Pretext for War (p. 144), images of the massacre at Qana "were likely the final shove, pushing bin Laden over the edge and leading him to dedicating his life to war against what he would call the Israeli-United States alliance."

[BluffTHIS!]

Chris,

I am still waiting for you to tell me what easily identifiable uniform the Hezbollah terrorists use so the IDF can avoid unfortunate civilian deaths as much as possible.

And the simple fact is that those civilians live and have lived on a firing range in front of the targets. If my family lived there when Hezbollah took control of that area, I would have left everything and moved, just as they could have.

And you still have not proved that in the present operation Israel is intentionally targeting civilians. The facts of any number of civilian deaths don't prove such intention when any war produces same.

[nicky g]

[ QUOTE ]
I am still waiting for you to tell me what easily identifiable uniform the Hezbollah terrorists use so the IDF can avoid unfortunate civilian deaths as much as possible.


[/ QUOTE ]

Given the impossibility of making out uniforms from indiscriminate air attacks, I see little relevance in this. But here are some links to photos of Hizb Allah fighters .

Photo 1


photo 2

Photo 3

This Russian page has several photos of Hizb Allah fighters during operations and they are all clearly wearing military style uniforms.

Hizb Allah

[ QUOTE ]
And the simple fact is that those civilians live and have lived on a firing range in front of the targets. If my family lived there when Hezbollah took control of that area, I would have left everything and moved, just as they could have.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is disgusting. Hundreds of thousands of civilians live in that area, the idea that all of them would have the resources or should ahve to pick up sticks and move is ridiculous. Many people did flee Southern Lebanon in the past, fleeing Israel's occupation and various armed campagins there and there is a large body of them living in Beirut now in slums; not everbody can or should be expected to any more than the citizens of Northern israel should flee. The reason they can't flee now, despite being told by both the Israeli army and hizb Allah to do so, is that Israel has bombed and is continuing to bomb the roads. The lack of compassion displayed by your argument is really quite astounding; it is simply obvious that no matter what Israel does or could ever do, you will find an argument in support of it. It's disgusting, especially from people who in other contexts have argued that war refugees give up their right to their property, homes and nations.

[ QUOTE ]
And you still have not proved that in the present operation Israel is intentionally targeting civilians.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chris gave you an example of the Israeli army ordering people to leave a village and then repeatedly bopmbing an dsheeling their convoy shortly after leaving that village. Israel has hit hospitals and water treatment plants. It is bombing anything that moves on the roads. It has killed 70 times more civilians that Hizb Allah fighters. If you need more evidence than that that it is intentionally targetting civilians or indiscriminately targetting everything, which amounts to the same thing, there's something wrong with you.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
Given the impossibility of making out uniforms from indiscriminate air attacks, I see little relevance in this

[/ QUOTE ]

But well marked military vehicles can easily be identified, if Hizbollah cared to protect the civilians they would use them.

[TheDudeAbides]

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It has killed 70 times more civilians that Hizb Allah fighters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cite your source please.

[nicky g]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Given the impossibility of making out uniforms from indiscriminate air attacks, I see little relevance in this

[/ QUOTE ]

But well marked military vehicles can easily be identified, if Hizbollah cared to protect the civilians they would use them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe so. The second photo I poste shows that at least someof its vehicles are clearly military vehicles. But even if all its vehicles were disguised, that doesn't give Israel the right to target every single moving vehicle in the region, especially when it knows that refugee convoys are fleeing, on its orders. It's not like it has zero intelligence capabilty or doesn;t have other strategies open to it.

I suppose it thought the water treatment plant might have been a Hizb Allah water treatment plant. Better hit it, just in case.

[Meech]

The "Kennedy School of Government" made me chuckle. Must have an open bar.

Anyhow, both sides have opportunities to lessen civilian casualties. What do the Hizzies do to lessen civilian casualties again? Zip.

[TheDudeAbides]

So as a national defending itself against terrorists you would suggest what exactly? A nice game of checkers perhaps?

[nicky g]

[ QUOTE ]
The "Kennedy School of Government" made me chuckle. Must have an open bar.

Anyhow, both sides have opportunities to lessen civilian casualties. What do the Hizzies do to lessen civilian casualties again? Zip.

[/ QUOTE ]

When all else fails, fall back on the old "two wrongs make a right argument."

[Copernicus]

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But even if all its vehicles were disguised, that doesn't give Israel the right to target every single moving vehicle in the region, especially when it knows that refugee convoys are fleeing, on its orders.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, thats why I am waiting for more details of the actual circumstances of the incident.