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#41
11-28-2007, 06:17 AM
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Re: This is why I\'m for the death penalty.
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You still haven't pointed to a specific case where the highlighted portion happened, just pointed to several that show the criminal justice system does in fact work, albeit slowly at times. [/ QUOTE ] DblBarrelJ, are you saying that the basis, or foundation, of your position with regard the death penalty is that there is no evidence of miscarriage of justice that resulted in execution in the US. Your ignorance is phenomenal! 
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#42
11-28-2007, 06:18 AM
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Re: This is why I\'m for the death penalty.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is why upstanding citizens should be armed. I find it ridiculous that so many people are forced by law to place themselves at the mercy of these gangsta pieces of [censored]. [/ QUOTE ] Your logic is weak. DUCY? [/ QUOTE ] As far as I can tell, I haven't yet expressed any train of logic. I expressed the opinion that upstanding citizens should be armed. And I expressed the opinion that laws mandating that gangsta pieces of [censored] have the upper hand in violent confrontations with upstanding citizens are ridiculous. I may hold these opinions for logical reasons, but I haven't yet expressed them in this thread. [/ QUOTE ] You're first statement seems to be part of an argument. I do agree with it, however, and would like to hear the explanation for why it is wrong. [/ QUOTE ] The first sentence was supposed to be short for: "In situations such as these, I would rather see the upstanding citzen armed and able to fight, rather than gunned down in cold blood." I'd like to see an explanation for why it's "wrong" too.
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#44
11-28-2007, 06:19 AM
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Re: This is why I\'m for the death penalty.
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[ QUOTE ] 1. Often I think its pretty obvious that the person is not innocent and cannot be innocent. There are clearly cases where the chances of the convicted being innocent is so slim it is not worth noting. When you have a dozen of eye witnesses, DNA, confession, motives, videotape and so on there is very litle reason for talking about "chance of being innocent". [/ QUOTE ] The chance of society executing an innocent person is always greater than zero. Not all murders have dozens of eye witnesses or CSI-quality DNA evidence. [/ QUOTE ] Your argument seemed to be on a specific-case level. You said that there is always a chance for someone being innocent, and I argue that in some cases there are 0% chance of the person being innocent. When there is doubt I prefer the person going free altogether, Im not in favor "well, you are 90% likely to be guilty, thats not quite enough to kill you, but we feel we are better off putting you behind bars for the next 25 years".
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#45
11-28-2007, 06:20 AM
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Re: This is why I\'m for the death penalty.
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Your ignorance is phenomenal! [/ QUOTE ] My general feelings about you MidGe! Good morning from the US btw.
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#46
11-28-2007, 06:20 AM
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Re: This is why I\'m for the death penalty.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] FWIW, i'm suprised so many people here think it is good for the state to murder people. [/ QUOTE ] As murder is the unlawful killing of a human being I dont think there are anyone here that think that is good. [/ QUOTE ] I've learned not to go too for down that road. There are a certain number of people who do not have the capability to understand that while killing is usually wrong, there are exceptions where it is not only justifiable, but necessary. Whether the death penalty is one of those times is up in the air for debate, and whether zasterguava is one of those without the capability to understand sometimes killing is morally acceptable, and necessary for the good of yourself or society I don't know, but I'm just saying this as a general statement. [/ QUOTE ] I did not divulge at all in to my personal opinion on the (state) death penalty- was just making an observation. My personl opinion is that the state should not murder people; though there are exceptions e.g legitimate wars. However, I think history serves me well in showig that the state should not conduct murder against percieved threats to society and that there are better deterrents and practical ways to curb these probelms. To the person who said that the death penalty is not murder because it is not unlawfull... you may like to note that in the UK the act to abolish the death penalty was called The MURDER Act of 1965. I'm pretty sure the death of 5 milltion Jews in Germany was murder; or because it was lawful as dictated by head of state it wasn't murder? Im guessing you refer to unlawful as 'not conforming to legality' as if you refer to 'moral law' then it doesn;t make sense because as demonstrated here the percepton of morality is completely ambiguous and unique to the indivudual. I actually sympathise with a traditional anarchist (whoes name escpaes me) who argues that the death penalty of murderers could be just in an anarchist/ fair society providing the fate of the murderer is decided by those involved/ directly effected and conducted in a legitimate manner. But in honesty I understand this is hardly relevent to current society and current discussion. But yeah, capital punishment is abhorent and immoral to summarise.
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#48
11-28-2007, 06:22 AM
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Re: This is why I\'m for the death penalty.
[ QUOTE ]
Your argument seemed to be on a specific-case level. You said that there is always a chance for someone being innocent, and I argue that in some cases there are 0% chance of the person being innocent. When there is doubt I prefer the person going free altogether, Im not in favor "well, you are 90% likely to be guilty, thats not quite enough to kill you, but we feel we are better off putting you behind bars for the next 25 years". [/ QUOTE ] So we're back to this. I refer you to my previous comment on prison vs death penalty. I'm curious, just to make sure, are you for the death penalty?
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#49
11-28-2007, 06:23 AM
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Re: This is why I\'m for the death penalty.
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[ QUOTE ] Thats like arguing against the morality of sentencing people to serve time in prison based on the fact that people that have served time in prison are later found to beinnocent, and the government have wrongfully taken away their freedom for an often substantial time. Noone is arguing in favor of punishing innocent people. [/ QUOTE ] Do you not see any difference between putting an innocent person in prison for life, releasing him 15 years later because he turned out to be innocent, and killing him and finding out he was innocent 15 years later..? My point is, killing an innocent person is worse than putting him in prison. Do you not agree? [/ QUOTE ] Im not in favor of punishing people on the varying degree of how likely they are to be guilty of a crime. If someone is 30% likely to have killed someone, are we giving him a fine? 50%=House arrest? 75%=5 years? 90%=10 years?
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#50
11-28-2007, 06:24 AM
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Re: This is why I\'m for the death penalty.
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I'm curious, just to make sure, are you for the death penalty? [/ QUOTE ] Long answer: Yes, in some cases Short answer: Yes
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