Freedom - Page 4

Poofler · #31 03-16-2007, 04:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

a) Define property (and what if you don't have it)?

[/ QUOTE ]

How does the state define property? Note: I'm not baiting but asking genuinely. I have no idea how our state defines property.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll need to either be more specific, or read a couple thousand pages on property law to sort that one out. Property is basically certain legal rights over the use of something. Those legal rights vary based on the nature of the property.

Dane S · #32 03-16-2007, 04:11 AM

Figures. Well, in that case, I wonder if AC wouldn't have a big advantage in being able to piggyback on those thousands of pages, sifting through all the state-serving stuff for usable knowledge of course, and then go from there. If it takes our state thousands and thousands of pages to define property, it probably won't be any simpler in AC-land. It will have to be deliberated upon extensively and also decided on a case by case basis. Not surprising then is it xorbie, that no one can answer your question satisfactorily in a message board post?

xorbie · #33 03-16-2007, 04:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Not surprising then is it xorbie, that no one can answer your question satisfactorily in a message board post?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I find any reference to "property" in freedom to be rather ridiculous, so obviously I'd disagree.

hmkpoker · #34 03-16-2007, 04:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If it takes our state thousands and thousands of pages to define property, it probably won't be any simpler in AC-land.

[/ QUOTE ]

With no disrespect intended, your thinking is a bit backwards. States are very inefficient, and private alternatives tend to streamline a lot of the junk.

hmkpoker · #35 03-16-2007, 04:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not surprising then is it xorbie, that no one can answer your question satisfactorily in a message board post?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I find any reference to "property" in freedom to be rather ridiculous, so obviously I'd disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Freedom must, as you've admitted, have boundaries. Property is the boundary of capitalistic freedom.

pokerbobo · #36 03-16-2007, 04:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You aquired it through voluntary transactions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am born with nothing, into total poverty, and all the land around me has already been divided up and is now declared "owned" by people who -- by sheer accident of birth -- just happened to be born onto this planet before I did.

I am now forced, by this circumstance, to labor for them and for their enrichment -- because, if I refuse to do this, I am penniless and landless and will starve to death.

Please explain to me how free I am.

q/q

[/ QUOTE ]

You are free and no one can force you to labor for them. If you choose not to labor for them, I would suggest laboring for yourself so you can accumulate wealth and perhaps buy some land from its owner. maybe then you can "force" paupers to labor for your enrichment.

xorbie · #37 03-16-2007, 04:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not surprising then is it xorbie, that no one can answer your question satisfactorily in a message board post?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I find any reference to "property" in freedom to be rather ridiculous, so obviously I'd disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Freedom must, as you've admitted, have boundaries. Property is the boundary of capitalistic freedom.

[/ QUOTE ]

And what is the worth of capitalistic freedom precisely?

xorbie · #38 03-16-2007, 04:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You aquired it through voluntary transactions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am born with nothing, into total poverty, and all the land around me has already been divided up and is now declared "owned" by people who -- by sheer accident of birth -- just happened to be born onto this planet before I did.

I am now forced, by this circumstance, to labor for them and for their enrichment -- because, if I refuse to do this, I am penniless and landless and will starve to death.

Please explain to me how free I am.

q/q

[/ QUOTE ]

You are free and no one can force you to labor for them. If you choose not to labor for them, I would suggest laboring for yourself so you can accumulate wealth and perhaps buy some land from its owner. maybe then you can "force" paupers to labor for your enrichment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you just not read his post? Labor for yourself doing what? You have nothing.

Dane S · #39 03-16-2007, 04:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If it takes our state thousands and thousands of pages to define property, it probably won't be any simpler in AC-land.

[/ QUOTE ]

With no disrespect intended, your thinking is a bit backwards. States are very inefficient, and private alternatives tend to streamline a lot of the junk.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point... still it remains that it's a complex issue no matter how you slice it and there will never be a concise dictionary definition.

Dane S · #40 03-16-2007, 04:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You aquired it through voluntary transactions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am born with nothing, into total poverty, and all the land around me has already been divided up and is now declared "owned" by people who -- by sheer accident of birth -- just happened to be born onto this planet before I did.

I am now forced, by this circumstance, to labor for them and for their enrichment -- because, if I refuse to do this, I am penniless and landless and will starve to death.

Please explain to me how free I am.

q/q

[/ QUOTE ]

You are free and no one can force you to labor for them. If you choose not to labor for them, I would suggest laboring for yourself so you can accumulate wealth and perhaps buy some land from its owner. maybe then you can "force" paupers to labor for your enrichment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you just not read his post? Labor for yourself doing what? You have nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could become an intermediary, facilitating deals between landowners. You could figure out a great business idea then give a landowner a cut for allowing you to run it from his property. You could sing blues songs about your wretched situation and hold out your hat.