Yet another NYC raid

[AngusThermopyle]

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I don't know of any state in the union, where a citizen can NOT work to get a proposed law put onto the books by way of ballot.

Many people simply work with someone who knows how to write law (IE: Their State Rep), then go out and get enough signatures of registered voters, to put the proposed law on the ballot.

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I think that the initiative process is only available in 24 states, mostly in the West.

List with requiremets (pdf)

[sightless]

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Also, you would have to take into consideration that if legalized, initially cardroom would be on every block in populated areas. Eventually, many of them would have to shutter up and close due to too much competition and lack of players. They'd eat into each other. A number of cardrooms now can only sustain existence because they're the only game in the area.

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why does this matter? there will be competition and the best cardrooms will survive. Whats the problem?

[*TT*]

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Many people view poker differently these days, than they do Casino Gambling. Where as a law allowing for Casinos might not

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Problem is the law doesnt need to be changed, the state constitution does. Thats a much bigger fish to fry, and there isnt the backing required. And oddly the people who run cards rooms in NYC don't want the added attention or the state to pass such a law.

[CincyLady]

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Many people view poker differently these days, than they do Casino Gambling. Where as a law allowing for Casinos might not

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Problem is the law doesnt need to be changed, the state constitution does. Thats a much bigger fish to fry, and there isnt the backing required. And oddly the people who run cards rooms in NYC don't want the added attention or the state to pass such a law.

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TT, wouldn't that (petition process) also apply in getting the states constitution changed? I mean isn't that what a lot of the 'Christian Right' did in many states, when it came to defining marriage as something between one woman and one man (FWIW, I think that Marriage as it pertains to cival law is a civil law contract between the concenting adult parties involved, and should be no one elses business but their own). This also as well as for the 'Left' in other states, where they changed some states constitutions so to allow for gay partnerships to be recognized (IE: Colorado where I live is one such state where I read before I moved here, they did this for insurance purposes).

I also remember when I lived in Ohio, this being done as well, where the Ohio state constitution was changed due to a petition drive being put on the ballot.

[F0rtysxity]

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However, the law is the law, and it says you cannot have a poker room for the purpose of profit.

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I'm not feeling these arguments here. The world we live in is not black and white and always clear cut. Sometimes what is considered morally acceptable by a society changes, sometimes it changes before the written law changes. Usually then law enforcement is lax or chooses to 'look the other way' because believe it or not, the laws and its enforcement is there to benefit us as a people. There are plenty of cases where the law is not strictly enforced, if you possess less than 5 grams of marijuana in Alaska or Berlin Germany it is understood that you will not be arrested even though it is against the law. The jaywalking example in NYC several years ago is another one. The anti-sodomy laws that exist in several states still might be another one.

So when the clubs get shut down there are many players who feel like the law enforcement is breaking some of the unwritten understood rules we've agreed to, namely that poker isn't that bad and that the cops should look the other way.

I'm sympathetic. Doesn't seem like there is much else to do besides complain about it.

[TMTTR]

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wouldn't that (petition process)

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stop there. there is no petition process in New York State to put a proposition/legislation/etc. on the ballot.

For reasons unrelated to poker, I am very glad about that.

[TMTTR]

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Usually then law enforcement is lax or chooses to 'look the other way' because believe it or not, the laws and its enforcement is there to benefit us as a people.

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Indee. At times, this has been the case with poker in NYC. However, after the armed robbery in June of a "major" underground room, there was political pressure on the police to stop looking the other way (which they apparently did despite their knowledge of the location of these rooms prior to the robbery). I am not sure there was a direct cause-and-effect here, but it certainly seemed that way.

[jkeats]

OT for sure - but anecdotally funny - I was one of the first people to get a jaywalking ticket when Guliani instituted that stupid law. I was like..."no way this is really happening...I must be asleep". It cost me $50.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Clubs are illegal by nature

They are not illegal "by nature", they are illegal because at sometime in the past a law was passed that defined them as illegal.

I think you meant to say, "Clubs are illegal *by definition*." Huge difference.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

In the eyes of the law there doesn't need to be a victim to be a crime

While this statement represents the reality of the situation, the concept behind the statement (I'm not saying TT agrees with the concept) is idiotic and needs to be eradicated from a free society.