Blackwater: Did anyone hear this???

[The once and future king]

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no site or paper is inaccurate 100% of the time

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So much for Blackwater, I guess!

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Blackwater Investigation Unjust

Media Intentionally Paints Negative Portrait Of Security Firm

Trigger-Happy Cowboys save Polish ambassador

Indeed MidGe. The media is critical of Blackwater 100% of the time.

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These links are worthless. Two are just opinion pieces and one just links to article about a totally different incident.

As for who took the statements, that is irrelevant, what is important is who made the judgments. So far in all the links posted in this thread that is indicated as being the State Department.

You have done all this research but cant provide one link to a source even remotely backing your claims. Please provide link to factual evidence that Blackwater did nothing wrong. Surely easy for someone who has done as much research as you.

[DblBarrelJ]

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no site or paper is inaccurate 100% of the time

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So much for Blackwater, I guess!

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Blackwater Investigation Unjust

Media Intentionally Paints Negative Portrait Of Security Firm

Trigger-Happy Cowboys save Polish ambassador

Indeed MidGe. The media is critical of Blackwater 100% of the time.

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These links are worthless. Two are just opinion pieces and one just links to article about a totally different incident.

As for who took the statements, that is irrelevant, what is important is who made the judgments. So far in all the links posted in this thread that is indicated as being the State Department.

You have done all this research but cant provide one link to a source even remotely backing your claims. Please provide link to factual evidence that Blackwater did nothing wrong. Surely easy for someone who has done as much research as you.

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The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused.

You provide proof.

[bosphorus]

"Then the same journalist will become incredulous when the State Dept actually investigates and says "uhhh No."@

Given that Blackwater is responsible for the security of State Dept employees in Iraq, the State Department is hardly an ideal candidate to investigate this shooting. They haven't even provided an account of the events. People were killed, there should have been a full criminal investigation by an independent body.

Has anyone disputed that the people killed were security guards for al-Iraqiyah? Assuming they were, why the hell would a bunch of them, while going about their daily jobs at a pro-American TV station, want to start shooting at American targets? Wouldn't insurgents look for some kind of cover and potential getaway rather than start firing from their workplace? The story is absurd.

[2/325Falcon]

For those of you unable to put together the sequence of events from the WashPo article:

Blackwater is providing security for a US dimplomat at the Justice Ministry.


Blackwater takes incoming fire.

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A Blackwater spokeswoman, Anne E. Tyrrell, said the company's guards came under "precision small-arms fire" and fired back with "well-aimed shots." The company was unable to comment further because of operational security and contractual obligations, she said. "This was absolutely a provoked incident," Tyrrell said.

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"To say Blackwater was the only source of information for this investigation is completely false," the security official added. U.S. officials declined to say who else was contacted as part of the probe or to provide any details about the assertions of Blackwater guards that they came under fire.

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Blackwater snipers set up overwatch positions at the Justice Ministry roof. Across the street at the Iraqiya building a guard is on a third floor balcony.

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Hadi was dressed in dark-green military camouflage and held an AK-47 assault rifle

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Hadi stood up in response to a commotion that suddenly broke out in the circle, according to several of his fellow guards.

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Hadi yelled at the civilians to move back, according to Ali, who was also nearby. "He was shouting: 'Move away from here. You can't stay here. This is a government building.' While he was shouting, he was holding his gun in a ready position. That's when the sniper shot him."

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So a guy on a balcony with a rifle in his hands yelling towards the street got shot. Others who moved toward the body were also shot.

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The guards crawled toward Hadi, shielded by a three-foot-high wall. The sniper was still firing, they said. "Anyone crawling or walking, he shot at them," Hassan said. At least three bullets lodged in the building's facade. The guards found Hadi in the corner with a bullet through his head.

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As they tried to move him, another shot rang out. It struck Azhar Abdullah al-Maliki, 31, another guard. His colleagues said he had raised his head above the low wall and was shot.

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Blackwater thought these guys were insurgents and shot them.

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The Blackwater guards said they believed they were again under immediate threat and responded with lethal force, the security official said.

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It's a friendly fire case. It isn't Blackwater randomly blasting Iraqis.

[DblBarrelJ]

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"Then the same journalist will become incredulous when the State Dept actually investigates and says "uhhh No."@

Given that Blackwater is responsible for the security of State Dept employees in Iraq, the State Department is hardly an ideal candidate to investigate this shooting. They haven't even provided an account of the events. People were killed, there should have been a full criminal investigation by an independent body.

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Who do you suggest investigate?


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Wouldn't insurgents look for some kind of cover and potential getaway rather than start firing from their workplace? The story is absurd.

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You're treating these insurgents as though they're highly trained SPECOP, or even basically trained US Soldiers. Tales come out of Iraq constantly of insurgents doing things that make zero sense tactically.

As for the cover thing, that has been something that has baffled both Blackwater agents and US troops during this war. The Americans have a second nature to duck for cover, the insurgent will stand in the middle of a deserted street, firing his AK in the direction of a group of US soldiers or Blackwater agents ducked behind cover, until a sniper picks him off, then the agents or soldiers will continue the mission.

[bosphorus]

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Who do you suggest investigate?


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Hard to say, I admit. Perhaps a special independent military unit speciically tasked with investigating contractor incidents, given how many there are. Possibly with some sort of Iraqi input; normally I would say it should be the Iraqi police, but givent he state they're in that's probably not appropriate. At any rate, having the state department do it is worse only than leaving it up to Blackwater themselves.

[bosphorus]

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For those of you unable to put together the sequence of events from the WashPo article:

Blackwater is providing security for a US dimplomat at the Justice Ministry.


Blackwater takes incoming fire.

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A Blackwater spokeswoman, Anne E. Tyrrell, said the company's guards came under "precision small-arms fire" and fired back with "well-aimed shots." The company was unable to comment further because of operational security and contractual obligations, she said. "This was absolutely a provoked incident," Tyrrell said.

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"To say Blackwater was the only source of information for this investigation is completely false," the security official added. U.S. officials declined to say who else was contacted as part of the probe or to provide any details about the assertions of Blackwater guards that they came under fire.

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Blackwater snipers set up overwatch positions at the Justice Ministry roof. Across the street at the Iraqiya building a guard is on a third floor balcony.

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Hadi was dressed in dark-green military camouflage and held an AK-47 assault rifle

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Hadi stood up in response to a commotion that suddenly broke out in the circle, according to several of his fellow guards.

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Hadi yelled at the civilians to move back, according to Ali, who was also nearby. "He was shouting: 'Move away from here. You can't stay here. This is a government building.' While he was shouting, he was holding his gun in a ready position. That's when the sniper shot him."

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So a guy on a balcony with a rifle in his hands yelling towards the street got shot. Others who moved toward the body were also shot.

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The guards crawled toward Hadi, shielded by a three-foot-high wall. The sniper was still firing, they said. "Anyone crawling or walking, he shot at them," Hassan said. At least three bullets lodged in the building's facade. The guards found Hadi in the corner with a bullet through his head.

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As they tried to move him, another shot rang out. It struck Azhar Abdullah al-Maliki, 31, another guard. His colleagues said he had raised his head above the low wall and was shot.

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Blackwater thought these guys were insurgents and shot them.

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The Blackwater guards said they believed they were again under immediate threat and responded with lethal force, the security official said.

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It's a friendly fire case. It isn't Blackwater randomly blasting Iraqis.

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Maybe. But there are two points. Firstly, noone but Blackwater seems to say they were shot at. Secondly, shouldn't they have been aware that there were armed security guards guarding the building across the street? They're supposed to be highly trained, did they just ignore their presence/didn;t see them before the shots allegdly rang out? I find that hard to believe.

Also for a "friendly fire" case their spokesperson's defence of "well-aimed shots" is callous beyond belief.

[2/325Falcon]

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Firstly, noone but Blackwater seems to say they were shot at.

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I actually quoted the relevant info in my post. I'll quote it again.

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"To say Blackwater was the only source of information for this investigation is completely false," the security official added. U.S. officials declined to say who else was contacted as part of the probe or to provide any details about the assertions of Blackwater guards that they came under fire.

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Secondly, shouldn't they have been aware that there were armed security guards guarding the building across the street? They're supposed to be highly trained, did they just ignore their presence/didn;t see them before the shots allegdly rang out? I find that hard to believe.

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In some perfect world? Sure. In the real world, no. They probably didn't even see the guard until he stood up yelling at people on the street and waving his rifle around. This isn't hard to believe at all.


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Also for a "friendly fire" case their spokesperson's defence of "well-aimed shots" is callous beyond belief.

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It isn't callous at all. It's in response to accusations that the Blackwater guys are cowboys who just blast away killing innocent Iraqis at random.

[DblBarrelJ]

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Maybe. But there are two points. Firstly, noone but Blackwater seems to say they were shot at.

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Who else would? Listen, here's the deal with BW, Iraqi officials want them out because your allegedly "Pro American" TV station can't stop blasting [censored] stories about them. They're a publicity nightmare for Iraq, which everyone on both sides admits. However, it's total bull [censored], which is why EVERYONE is using them in Iraq, foreign diplomats, American businessmen, Iraqi leaders, etc. They're so effective, they have yet to lose the first person in Iraq they're hired to protect. They're that good.

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Secondly, shouldn't they have been aware that there were armed security guards guarding the building across the street? They're supposed to be highly trained, did they just ignore their presence/didn;t see them before the shots allegedly rang out? I find that hard to believe.

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How much recon do you think security contractors are doing on routine sniper positions on rooftops? This quote shows your misunderstanding. That kind of recon work would be done on an assault type mission, this was merely a security detail.

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Also for a "friendly fire" case their spokesperson's defence of "well-aimed shots" is callous beyond belief.

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Friendly fire and collateral damage are facts of life in a war-zone. She's well aware, as is Prince, who himself is a former Navy SEAL.

[2/325Falcon]

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Who else would?

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How about the protectee?