Live 4/8: Overpair Gets Turn CR'd

[ProfessorBen]

[ QUOTE ]
Say river is a blank.

Anyone like a river raise? I think I get paid off by one pair more often if I call turn, raise river than if I 3-bet turn, bet river. I still don't feel like I'm ahead often enough, though.

I think he sat down in time to see me call down w/ TT on a Q-high board on the previous orbit, so he could be a little light.

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Raise/raise a river K. Raise/fold a river 6/4. I don't like raising a river blank because we don't have 50% equity against his range. We maybe ahead of AQ/KQ some of the time, but not enough to put in an extra bet.

[CrazyEyez]

[ QUOTE ]
if the river doesn't pair the board like say the 4, then raising it is spew for the same reason 3betting the turn is spew - that we're usually behind

[/ QUOTE ]
I think 3-betting is wrong, but maybe for a different reason.

For 3-betting to be correct (instead of calling down), both of these have to be true:
1) I'm ahead of his range
2) He has to call the 3-bet and my river bet

I was thinking that 1) is close, but when I am ahead he won't do 2) every time. That's why I wondered about call-raise instead, which he's more likely to call with a hand I beat.

But you guys are right, I'm probably just flat-out behind the range. Especially since he'd have probably raised AQ pf.

IRL I actually 3-bet. He called, check-called, and mucked. Guy to my left was praising me for the 3-bet, and I was instantly thinking it was wrong.

[Frond]

[ QUOTE ]
3 bet or call down but never fold.

I should specify:

3 bet if you think villain is likely to check raise the turn with just a Q. if not, call down.



[/ QUOTE ]
This seems reasonable to me

[PokerBob]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3 bet

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incorrect.

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why.

is this another rule, never 3 bet the turn w/ one pair even against aggros?


if he's got a Q, NOT 3 betting is incorrect, esp if he's incapable of folding it.

you guys with your hard and fast rules of playing are being ridiculous. play the player and follow your rules, please. as a default, yes this is a calldown. however, you should change your "defaults" based on who you're playing.

im actually surprised everyone thinks the villain has QT. In many instances, a hand like QT would check raise you on the flop....he has top pair.

IMO he either has a set or a naked Q.

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what is ridiculous is doing anything other than calling down in this spot. we have no idea how this guy plays. when we have an overpair vs. an unknown, we follow the hard and fast rule of getting to showdown. doing anything other than that makes zero sense.

[bernie]

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however, you should change your "defaults" based on who you're playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

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what is ridiculous is doing anything other than calling down in this spot. we have no idea how this guy plays. when we have an overpair vs. an unknown, we follow the hard and fast rule of getting to showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which, in effect, IS playing the player. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I agree with PB. I don't like getting too wild against unknowns. You'd hate it if he caps because then you still have to call down.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if the river doesn't pair the board like say the 4, then raising it is spew for the same reason 3betting the turn is spew - that we're usually behind

[/ QUOTE ]
I think 3-betting is wrong, but maybe for a different reason.

For 3-betting to be correct (instead of calling down), both of these have to be true:
1) I'm ahead of his range
2) He has to call the 3-bet and my river bet

I was thinking that 1) is close, but when I am ahead he won't do 2) every time. That's why I wondered about call-raise instead, which he's more likely to call with a hand I beat.

But you guys are right, I'm probably just flat-out behind the range. Especially since he'd have probably raised AQ pf.

IRL I actually 3-bet. He called, check-called, and mucked. Guy to my left was praising me for the 3-bet, and I was instantly thinking it was wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to 3 bet or raise the river, you should be willing to fold to a cap on the turn or a river 3 bet. Imo, we don't know this player well enough to fold in either situation.

b

[Holm Fries]

Calling down is my standard play here. You can raise if a low card pairs on the river, since his most likely holding is QT.