8/16 razz - ugh i should fold this made 8 but when?

[DrewOnTilt]

Seat 3 in this hand is a loose moron and is the reason that I am in seat 4. That said, he is the "loose calldown and chase" type moron, rather than the "fling chips at the pot with both hands and both feet" type moron. Seat 6 is a decent TAG.

My table image is good, since I have played very solidly and shown down strong hands.

Obviously I botched 4th street by betting since I can't possibly have the best draw.

Razz ($8/$16), Ante $1.50, Bring-In $2 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.31 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes___calls
Hero: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 7: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (7.56 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___raises
Hero: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls

5th Street - (6.78 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds

6th Street - (8.78 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] thinks he is drawing very thin, if not completely dead.

[SuitedBaby]

Doesn't look like a tough decision here especilly with the vibrant picture you've painted. The calling station check-raised your what had become a very mediocre hand and then proceeded to continue betting and also draw better than you. I suspect, as you do, that you would be drawing dead.

Patty

[xxeximusxx]

even if he is a loose moron and started with a high card in the whole, all he needs is one 2, 3, or 5 to be ahead, and given his raise he probably is somewhat strong. I'd call it down and expect to lose.

[Andy B]

Isn't third a fold? An Ace has raised, there are a couple of strong door cards behind you, your Eight is showing, your hand is pretty rough, and a lot of your cards are dead. I don't think the bet on fourth is terrible, although A4's check is a bit suspicious. Fifth is a call, although you're very likely behind. I think you have to fold sixth, though. You're definitely losing, and there's an excellent chance that you're drawing dead.

[betgo]

Fold 3rd.

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't third a fold?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, because otherwise I wouldn't have been able to extend my perfect streak of completely butchering at least one hand every winning session, and dumping back a large chunk of my profits. Kinda like in NLHE where I'll chip up 2-3 buyins and then get stacked because I can't let go of AK or QQ preflop.

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to fold sixth, though. You're definitely losing, and there's an excellent chance that you're drawing dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

I finally wisened up and just tossed it on 6th.

[Andy B]

How often do you fold AK or QQ pre-flop? I've tossed QQ exactly once, and it was a pretty easy lay-down. I've tossed AK a small handful of times. Then again, you sound like you're talking about cash games, and I don't play NL cash games that often, and certainly not against good players.

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
How often do you fold AK or QQ pre-flop? I've tossed QQ exactly once, and it was a pretty easy lay-down. I've tossed AK a small handful of times. Then again, you sound like you're talking about cash games, and I don't play NL cash games that often, and certainly not against good players.

[/ QUOTE ]

cash games. They're a whole different beast than tourneys. Folding AK or QQ preflop is a must-learn-to-do thing that I still struggle with.

[SGspecial]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How often do you fold AK or QQ pre-flop? I've tossed QQ exactly once, and it was a pretty easy lay-down. I've tossed AK a small handful of times. Then again, you sound like you're talking about cash games, and I don't play NL cash games that often, and certainly not against good players.

[/ QUOTE ]

cash games. They're a whole different beast than tourneys. Folding AK or QQ preflop is a must-learn-to-do thing that I still struggle with.

[/ QUOTE ]

The proper NLHE analogy for this hand (if there is one) isn't QQ, or even AK. It's more like flat calling with AJ in MP after a UTG raise. At least you didn't raise it up.

[ChipsAhoya]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold 3rd.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah this is pretty standard.

-ChipsAhoya