Adults dupe teen into MySpace-assisted suicide

[SoloAJ]

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How is anybody ever responsible for the actions of someone else (not speaking legally)? If you make fun of a poor person and call them dirty and make fun of their raggedy clothes, are you responsible for them consquently robbing a dept store?

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Yes.


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Uhhh, seriously here AlexM?

[MikeyPatriot]

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Suppose you're those parents, and you hear from your kid that somebody has been bullying her and making her miserable. How do you respond? It seems to me like the same inclinations that lead to a desire for revenge/vigilante justice here are also the same ones that pushed the guilty parents down the road to their terrible action.

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There's a difference though. If my child comes home and complains that she's being bullied, the last thing I'm gonna do is prank the bully. I'm gonna sit my kid down and explain why people bully and I'm gonna contact the bully's family and try to see what's up on that end.

When a family gets together and torments a child like this, I'm going to do whatever I legally can to get these people out of my community. These are not people that I want around my kids (or anyone else's kids in the community for that matter).

[mbillie1]

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How is anybody ever responsible for the actions of someone else (not speaking legally)? If you make fun of a poor person and call them dirty and make fun of their raggedy clothes, are you responsible for them consquently robbing a dept store?

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Yes.

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Or if you make fun of a depressed person and call them worthless and make fun of their boring life, are you responsible for them consequently ending their own life?

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Yes.

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But you can't be held morally responsible for the actions of others, which are completely out of your control.

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No, they're not, as you already pointed out. Not making fun of depressed people is entirely in your control.

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ehhh this is not teneble ground you're arguing from... you're arbitrarily locating the onus of responsibility for all behavior in the person you're deeming "responsible" ... not making fun of depressed people is under your control, but suicide is also under the control of a depressed person... you're just deciding that X causes Y in terms of human behavior, without justification

[AlexM]

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How is anybody ever responsible for the actions of someone else (not speaking legally)? If you make fun of a poor person and call them dirty and make fun of their raggedy clothes, are you responsible for them consquently robbing a dept store?

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Yes.


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Uhhh, seriously here AlexM?

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Absolutely. If you treat people like crap and it makes them into a crappier person, you're partly responsbile. Are you 100% responsible? No, but you do share part of the burden.

[AlexM]

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How is anybody ever responsible for the actions of someone else (not speaking legally)? If you make fun of a poor person and call them dirty and make fun of their raggedy clothes, are you responsible for them consquently robbing a dept store?

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Yes.

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Or if you make fun of a depressed person and call them worthless and make fun of their boring life, are you responsible for them consequently ending their own life?

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Yes.

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But you can't be held morally responsible for the actions of others, which are completely out of your control.

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No, they're not, as you already pointed out. Not making fun of depressed people is entirely in your control.

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ehhh this is not teneble ground you're arguing from... you're arbitrarily locating the onus of responsibility for all behavior in the person you're deeming "responsible" ... not making fun of depressed people is under your control, but suicide is also under the control of a depressed person... you're just deciding that X causes Y in terms of human behavior, without justification

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I didn't say the person in question was 100% responsible. Maybe 5% or 1% or even .05%, but there is definitely some level of responsibility on the bastard who pushed em.

[SoloAJ]

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How is anybody ever responsible for the actions of someone else (not speaking legally)?

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How can you compare off-handed trolling of a bum to premeditated harassment of a child?

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The offense may be more despicable, but imo fundamentally nobody is ever responsible for the actions of another. You can't control what other people do, just like nobody can control what you do. Your actions are your own. It's pretty easy to shirk off that responsibility by blaming circumstance or environment or outside forces, but everybody's actions are still their own responsibility and nobody else's.

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Something to consider here is that I think it's pretty well known that children who are raped at a young age are mentally affected by it and their relationships will suffer perpetually unless they receive a LOT of counseling treatment.

I think something like this argues against what you're saying. While, in theory, they control their own actions, it is a pretty universal thing for them to all have certain problems thereafter in their life (e.g., sexual addiction).

So I don't think your statement is quite as universal as you're trying to imply.

[mbillie1]

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I didn't say the person in question was 100% responsible. Maybe 5% or 1% or even .05%, but there is definitely some level of responsibility on the bastard who pushed em.

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hmm, well I agree, but I think it's hard to legislate on this principle don't you? I mean we're all somewhat responsible for what happens to everyone else, maybe 0.0000001% or whatever, for contributing to society, etc... obviously 5% > 1% > 0.01%, but in terms of practical application of law, do you hold them responsible for (for example) a girl's suicide when you teased her, or broke up with her, or ignored her even though you knew she had a crush on you, etc etc...

[Alobar]

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Its not murder because they didnt kill her. That doesnt change the fact IMO that they are responsible for her death. Their malicious action resulted in her death. I dont care whatever legal term you wanna call it, they should be held responsible.

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How is anybody ever responsible for the actions of someone else (not speaking legally)? If you make fun of a poor person and call them dirty and make fun of their raggedy clothes, are you responsible for them consquently robbing a dept store? Or if you make fun of a depressed person and call them worthless and make fun of their boring life, are you responsible for them consequently ending their own life?

People's actions are their own. Being cruel to someone is a mean thing to do. Taking someone's life is a mean thing to do. Those are all things you choose to do yourself. But you can't be held morally responsible for the actions of others, which are completely out of your control. That the girl happened to kill herself immediately afterward is not their responsibility - it's her own and nobody else's.

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I disagree. If I take someone who I know is emotionally unstable and I put them in a situation to purposely torment and hurt them, and not just by calling them poor or ugly mind you, I take weeks and build up their trust. I make them fall for me, and become an integral part of their emotional well being, by building them up, making them rely on me to feel good about their self, giving them value as a person and then I drastically snatch that away in the worst possible way, and completely humiliate and degrade them, as an adult I realize there is going to be a reaction to that. it might not have been the one I thought it was going to be, but there sure is [censored] is going to be one, and you cant predict what its going to be from someone unstable, but yes I am responsible for the outcome.

This isnt teasing someone at lunch, this isnt making fun of some homeless guy. This is a total mindfuck that took place over an extended period of time. Comparing these two situations shows a complete lack of understanding about what took place here.

[gumpzilla]

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There's a difference though. If my child comes home and complains that she's being bullied, the last thing I'm gonna do is prank the bully. I'm gonna sit my kid down and explain why people bully and I'm gonna contact the bully's family and try to see what's up on that end.

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Here's how I imagine 75% of those conversations go, roughly:

A: "Hey, your kid's an [censored]."
B: "Yeah? Your kid's a fatass. [censored] you."

And I'd imagine that in most of the remaining cases where the bully's parents exercise discipline, it will frequently make things worse for the bullied. I remember my dad getting involved in a situation like this, and while looking back at it I love him for trying, at the time it did absolutely nothing to help.

[SoloAJ]

AlexM, I think we just assumed you meant 100%. Carry on.