What's wrong with my belief in God and/or religion?

[John21]

A few years back, I was having a very hard time making any sense of religion, the various doctrines, dogmas, and belief systems, so I'd tried to do the best I could at approaching the issue with an open mind.

Since most of the "experts" on theology seemed to be in accordance in saying that the only way to really get to know God was by first believing in Him, I concluded I'd have to make that proverbial, "leap of faith," at some point. But the first problem I ran into was the difficulty in believing in "three letters" with a vague definition of what they might mean. At first going through the Bible wasn't much help, there seemed to be as many definitions of God as there were pages. But then I started wondering if all the definitions weren't hinting at the same thing and just giving different examples and definitions, so depending on what particular perspective you happened to be coming from, you could find one you could embrace and believe in.

I eventually found a definition of God I felt I could believe in, without giving way to intellectual credulity, near the end of the Bible in the Letters of Saint John. The particular definition is in 1 John 4:16:

God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

I decided "I could believe" that sentence, and I just made the decision "to believe it" - and now I feel I know it's true. God is love… the rest is commentary. God = Love - Love's not a person or being, and it doesn't exist outside of us, therefore God isn't a person or being that exists outside of us. To me it's all an internal, subjective process.

After internalizing that belief, I found when I read "stories" in the Bible, that's all they were - stories. But they were stories with a meaning. And more often than not, those stories when read from my new perspective and read as stories and not literal facts would elicit an emotion in me and quite often that emotion was love.

The story that's one of the central pillars of Christianity; of Christ dying on the Cross for all our sins, whether literally true or not didn't seem relevant. What mattered was the story, and the internal emotions that story is capable of generating. In my mind I can see a Marine holding a laser tag on a target; a blur; an explosion; and a body without a head falling to the ground. But in my heart I see a Marine throwing his body in the line of a sniper's bullet and without a moment's hesitation sacrificing his life for a fellow Marine's and the mission. And I simply cannot escape the emotional impact of one person sacrificing their life for another - whether you witness it or read about it - it's as real as anything I know.

So if I ever seem overly or irrationally defensive of religion and/or God I feel I know why I am. But I would be interested in hearing why I shouldn't be. It sure seems "real" to me.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
So if I ever seem overly or irrationally defensive of religion and/or God I feel I know why I am. But I would be interested in hearing why I shouldn't be. It sure seems "real" to me.

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On here, you'll hafta get in line. Be as irrational as you find necessary, it's your religion so whatever floats your boat and makes you feel good.
Others hear voices. Some have visions. You get a feeling.
carry on.

luckyme

[MidGe]

John21,

I wonder if you could expand your heart to encompass the feeling of the sniper whose country is bring invaded by the marines, in the same way that you could not possibly equate love with responsibility for "creating" the suffering of innocent babies (OK, I'll take the rap for my own actions) that are engulfed in some sort of cataclysms, usually referred to as acts of god/s.

[Prodigy54321]

this really baffles me...

you were not sure about something..so in order to get to the truth of the matter, you decided to believe it was true...now you want to know of that belief is irrational?!?!?! Of course it is...how can you not see that?

although operating in that manner is irrational to the fullest extent, I can see its allure...

I have made similar leaps of faith of my own in the past...simply not caring about whether or not it was logical to do so..I had always heard that that ws the only way...it was a rough time in my life and I truly believed that there must be a God and I wanted to get to know Him...so I believed in the Christian God specifically including the sacrifice of Christ, and I prayed to know Him more closely for some time.

I got no response.

I was so vulnerable during that time period that I am quite sure that even something that could have even been remotely interpreted as a response would have sent me down the Christian path...

but I am now glad that no such coincidence actually occurred.

I have now come to the conclusion that a God that would require a man with such a low intellect as to not see how illogical the system of belief in him is, is not worth worship anyway.

John, did you try Christianity first? Why not another religion...The first leap of faith is usually the one that sticks..there is a reason why that is true...and that reason should not be conforting to your belief.

[John21]

[ QUOTE ]
John21,

I wonder if you could expand your heart to encompass the feeling of the sniper whose country is bring invaded by the marines, in the same way that you could not possibly equate love with responsibility for "creating" the suffering of innocent babies (OK, I'll take the rap for my own actions) that are engulfed in some sort of cataclysms, usually referred to as acts of god/s.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was actually a circumstance that occurred, though not something I realized at the moment but in later reflection, that instigated my thoughts along these lines. I know human beings are capable of a level of communication that transcends language, ideologies, belief, cultures, and expediency. I don't know what it is, and I don't know how we can do it, but I honestly feel there's a connection or connective medium between people. I don't know it other than a look in a man's eyes and what that look makes me feel. And not that it would hold up in a court of law - but it "seems" real.

As far as the expansion part goes - I'm working on it.

[Duals21]

[ QUOTE ]
I decided "I could believe" that sentence, and I just made the decision "to believe it" - and now I feel I know it's true. God is love… the rest is commentary. God = Love - Love's not a person or being, and it doesn't exist outside of us, therefore God isn't a person or being that exists outside of us. To me it's all an internal, subjective process.

[/ QUOTE ]

I truly think that the story of your acceptance is beautiful, and in some ways I feel the same way. If I felt that I was allowed to define 'God' in any way that I wanted, I could surely feel good about calling myself a believer. Unfortunately, it seems to me that for the word to have meaning, it has to have communicative power. People have to know and understand what you are talking about. And, unfortunately, when most people pose the question "Do you believe in God?" they mean something very specific. Generally, they are talking about the Deity held by Monotheists to be the sole creator, and often the sustainer, of the universe.

It is clear that your belief in God has nothing to do with such a definition. Now, personally I think it is unnecessarily confusing to refer to your feelings as a 'belief in God', but it would be absurd for anyone to argue that your beliefs, no matter how you choose to describe them, do harm to anyone (including yourself). In my view, harm is not done by religion itself. It is done by the unthinking acceptance of religious doctrine, just as harm is done by the unthinking acceptance of an any system of beliefs. In my opinion, it is harmful to believe, on the basis of no natural (as opposed to supernatural) evidence, that homosexuality (for example) is wrong. However, I have no anger towards people who after careful thought adopt this opinion, even though I happen to disagree. Similarly, I have nothing but respect for those who find a belief in "God" after thorough search and consideration.

For the record, I am personally convinced that your conception of 'God' is much closer to that of Jesus than Pat Robertson. Because of the misunderstanding of metaphor, symbol, and ritual, a very rigid misconception of what Jesus (and probably Mystics in many other religious traditions) were talking about has become the norm, and this is truly unfortunate.

[Taraz]

John21,

I don't see anything wrong with your beliefs. I think that is the way that you have to approach religion/spirituality/God; you have to look for what it all means to you. It's fairly simple to show that the bible and most religious texts can't be taken literally, so all anyone can do is read them, perhaps meditate on them, and decide how their message pertains to his or her life.

[madnak]

Because I don't think Christianity is about love. I think it's as far from that as can be. If the marine had run up to the sniper, ripped his arms off, and spent three weeks torturing him, would you have had the same emotional reaction? How about if he did it to the guy's whole family, while he watched, just to punish him? Now we're getting close to Christianity.

No accounting for differing interpretations, I guess. But I know for a fact that I'm now (belatedly) reading about how the Christian God decided to torture thousands of innocent Egyptians to death in order to convince one pharaoh to do him lip service. And I'm only in the second part of the whole Bible. Rationalize what you want - the straight, direct fact is that God sends plagues and fires and armies to ravage entire nations when someone pisses him off. You'll never, ever convince me that's what a loving being does.

[Duals21]

[ QUOTE ]
Because I don't think Christianity is about love. I think it's as far from that as can be. If the marine had run up to the sniper, ripped his arms off, and spent three weeks torturing him, would you have had the same emotional reaction? How about if he did it to the guy's whole family, while he watched, just to punish him? Now we're getting close to Christianity.

No accounting for differing interpretations, I guess. But I know for a fact that I'm now (belatedly) reading about how the Christian God decided to torture thousands of innocent Egyptians to death in order to convince one pharaoh to do him lip service. And I'm only in the second part of the whole Bible. Rationalize what you want - the straight, direct fact is that God sends plagues and fires and armies to ravage entire nations when someone pisses him off. You'll never, ever convince me that's what a loving being does.

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You do need to remember that this stuff was written hundreds of years before Jesus was born. What are supposed to be the actual teachings of Christ, after whom Christianity is named, undeniably stress love for God and love for one's neighbors as the two most important principles.

[MidGe]

John21,

The very fact that you used a "marines" story to try to explain your faith, evokes to me the darkest aspects of christianity in US politics as evidenced by the article from the Washington Post.

Anyone who doesn't find something dark and disturbing in this must be brainwashed, imo.