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#3
09-13-2007, 07:40 PM
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Re: ZMA
[ QUOTE ]
Really vivid dreams? [/ QUOTE ] YES! Thank you. I'm glad I'm not insane. I almost never remember my dreams, and when I do they make zero sense and have no continuity whatsoever. The nights I took ZMA I had very realistic dreams that involved some stressful work situation or life decision. They were very realistic and I remembered them real well when I woke up. I may have gotten good sleep, but I felt completely stressed out from my dream. I decided it wasn't worth it. I don't really have trouble falling asleep. I just don't sleep as deep as I'd like. But for this the cure was worse than the ailment. Thremp, do the dreams fade over time? If so, maybe I'll give ZMA another chance. 
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#4
09-13-2007, 07:56 PM
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Re: ZMA
suzzer,
I don't know. I take it on and off. When I remember mostly, I need to put it by my bed with a bottle of water. You probably just have a really stressful life. I have just really intense porno dreams mostly. Which is somewhat... interesting. Most are just random stuff though. I have not taken it long enough to know if they fade or not. I doubt they do. You are probably sleeping too short of a period though.
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#5
09-13-2007, 08:20 PM
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Re: ZMA
Another vote for really vivid dreams.
You can get the same lucid dream effect if you just eat foods that are high in magnesium/zinc before going to bed (think spinach, banana, etc). This is due to increased % of time asleep spent in the REM cycle, which in turn means that you get more rest per hour of sleep. When I take ZMA, I feel well rested after sleeping 2 hrs less than usual, and like superman when I sleep my full amount.
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#7
09-14-2007, 11:53 PM
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Re: ZMA
I can't figure out the ZMA love here. Does anyone know of a study (that is independent of any affiliations with Victor Conte or anyone else that stands to make a profit from ZMA hype) that shows ZMA actually works? I'm VERY skeptical that this supplement is anything but completely worthless.
The only studies I have seen are ones co-authored by Victor Conte (the developer of ZMA!) and this study, which disagrees with Conte's findings . Although to be fair, that study I just cited only tested ZMA on male, trained athletes, and doesn't comment on how ZMA could affect people with little or no training. I'm willing to listen to arguments, as I'd love to add another supplement to my regime that I actually think works, but as of this moment, I just don't buy the hype.
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#8
09-14-2007, 11:57 PM
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Re: ZMA
That study shows (as per Wikipedia):
[ QUOTE ] Another study in 2004 found that ZMA has no effect on strength or hormone levels, but did show a lower rate of muscle catabolism and cited further study was recommended.[3] [/ QUOTE ] That's pretty much what most people here are echoing - lower rates of muscle catabolism is pretty damn effective for people who are cutting, and that almost certainly relates to recovery time.
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#9
09-15-2007, 01:28 AM
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Re: ZMA
[ QUOTE ]
That study shows (as per Wikipedia): [ QUOTE ] Another study in 2004 found that ZMA has no effect on strength or hormone levels, but did show a lower rate of muscle catabolism and cited further study was recommended.[3] [/ QUOTE ] That's pretty much what most people here are echoing - lower rates of muscle catabolism is pretty damn effective for people who are cutting, and that almost certainly relates to recovery time. [/ QUOTE ] If it did indeed decrease rates of muscle catabolism, then I would absolutely agree that this was a worthwhile supplement. Maybe I'm missing something, but after reading through the results and discussion section again, I don't see where it comes to this conclusion at all. From the discussion section to that study: "The major findings of this study was that dietary supplementation of a commercially available ZMA supplement resulted in a non-significant 12-17% increase in serum zinc levels but did not appear to affect anabolic or catabolic responses to resistance training, body composition, or training adaptations." There might be a small, favorable trend in regards to body composition according to the paper, but the data they found could easily be due to random chance. The authors found the changes "not statistically significant", and they contend that further study would have to be performed.
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#10
09-15-2007, 06:10 AM
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Re: ZMA
Who cares about studies. I'm sure you can find them if you try...
But we know that a diet high in zinc/magnesium increases REM sleep, and we know that increased REM sleep increases testosterone release. That's how it works, and that's why bodybuilders are supposed to not skimp on sleep and get a minimum of 8 hrs a night. If you want to get the same effects, like I said before, just eat a crapload of foods with zinc/magnesium 30-60 minutes before you go to bed. [ QUOTE ] I can't figure out the ZMA love here. Does anyone know of a study (that is independent of any affiliations with Victor Conte or anyone else that stands to make a profit from ZMA hype) that shows ZMA actually works? I'm VERY skeptical that this supplement is anything but completely worthless. The only studies I have seen are ones co-authored by Victor Conte (the developer of ZMA!) and this study, which disagrees with Conte's findings . Although to be fair, that study I just cited only tested ZMA on male, trained athletes, and doesn't comment on how ZMA could affect people with little or no training. I'm willing to listen to arguments, as I'd love to add another supplement to my regime that I actually think works, but as of this moment, I just don't buy the hype. [/ QUOTE ]
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Hybrid Mode
