25nl 2Pair v. shortstck on crap board

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Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

UTG: $9.65
MP: $22.85
CO: $24.70
BTN: $51.70
Hero (SB): $37.25
BB: $16.10

Pre-Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.15, BB checks

Flop: ($0.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $0.75</font>, BB folds, UTG calls $0.75

Turn: ($2.25) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $1.75</font>, UTG calls $1.75

River: ($5.75) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero ?</font> (Villain has 7$ behind)
Villain is typical semi-loose passive fish over small station.

Bet more on turn?

As I played it I can't decide whether to shove river or bet/fold river... he's so short I'm inclined to just shove, any ideas?

[ICMoney]

I don't like shoving river.

It was a limped pot and then you pot the flop into two players.

The straight/flush got there on the turn and you fire again.

If you shove, I doubt he can call w/ AT or some other one pair hand. You are either getting called by a worse 2 pair hand (unlikely) or a better hand.

If he is a loose-passive station he is much more likely to call a bet than to bet/raise.

I think I might try to bet $3 for value.

Sucks if he raises, but I can't see that small of a raise by that kind of a player being a bluff.

Thoughts?

[JimboNYY24]

check/call if you don't like bet fold. But i dont mind betting like 2-3 and folding to a shove if you think he never bluffs, or vice versa...never see a passive fish bluff here

[Brian O'Nolan]

fold pf. scs are not profitable OOP vs 2 shorties. as played, meh, I bet/call half pot or somethin.

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fold pf. scs are not profitable OOP vs 2 shorties. as played, meh, I bet/call half pot or somethin.

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lol this is so weak/tight
Profitability has so facets that attempting to claim that "such and such hands are not profitable to play" is ridiculous. Regardless of stacksize I'm getting 5:1 pot odds and am going to get raised here almost never by these guys.

[wotttttttttt]

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check/call if you don't like bet fold. But i dont mind betting like 2-3 and folding to a shove if you think he never bluffs, or vice versa...never see a passive fish bluff here

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C/C is horrible here because he never bluffs and won't bet a lot of weaker hands that he'll call a bet with.
I don't think he ever folds QT+ to a shove, certainly never a slowplayed overpair, but how much of his range is the flush and how much of his range is a ten that calls as opposed to a weaker made hand that folds to a shove but calls a 3$ bet?

[Brian O'Nolan]

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fold pf. scs are not profitable OOP vs 2 shorties. as played, meh, I bet/call half pot or somethin.

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lol this is so weak/tight
Profitability has so facets that attempting to claim that "such and such hands are not profitable to play" is ridiculous. Regardless of stacksize I'm getting 5:1 pot odds and am going to get raised here almost never by these guys.

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Do you think you are going to get yourself in much better spots than you ended up in on this hand? What is the best case scenario for you playing this OOP on every street? So many more times you're going to end up in marginal spots that will turn to -EV because you're OOP and you have minimal FE not taking the initiative and being the aggressor in the hand.

[TTStrangler]

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fold pf. scs are not profitable OOP vs 2 shorties. as played, meh, I bet/call half pot or somethin.

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lol this is so weak/tight
Profitability has so facets that attempting to claim that "such and such hands are not profitable to play" is ridiculous. Regardless of stacksize I'm getting 5:1 pot odds and am going to get raised here almost never by these guys.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you think you are going to get yourself in much better spots than you ended up in on this hand? What is the best case scenario for you playing this OOP on every street? So many more times you're going to end up in marginal spots that will turn to -EV because you're OOP and you have minimal FE not taking the initiative and being the aggressor in the hand.

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I pretty much agree with Brian, I don't think completing with a SC like this is bad idea, but this is not the flop you are looking for here to be pumping the pot up like this. I know you don't like these "weak/tight" suggestions but IMO regularly potting the flop multiway from the SB with MP is going to consistently get you in -EV type situations.

[UFGatorGuy]

I can't believe preflop is being debated. What the hell do you guys run at, 12/8? I'm completing this with a limper, raising it if it was BvB. I check this flop into 2 other players, though. As played, bet $4 and call a shove. You're good here 90% of the time. Honestly folks, how often do some of you actually play poker at these stakes online? Do you have any idea the kind of hands these players go to showdown with? He'll easily call you with top pair, a horribly played overpair, maybe second pair. People are stupid and play stupid, stupid hands that have almost no chance of winning. It happens all the time. I feel like every post in this forum is "[censored], he has to have at least a set here if not four of a kind, what, the board isn't paired and he can't have four of a kind? He might have 3 cards, you never know."

[Nick C]

I think Villain is too short-stacked for you to be bet-folding the river. Even seemingly passive players will sometimes say "the hell with it" and shove when they're near the felt and facing a bet.

Still, bet-calling is an option. I probably bet $4 or so. Simply pushing, like you were considering, also seems okay to me.