25nl 2Pair v. shortstck on crap board

[vixticator]

I bet $3 and instacall push. Very doubtful he has straight or flush.

[Das Budrick]

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fold pf. scs are not profitable OOP vs 2 shorties. as played, meh, I bet/call half pot or somethin.

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lol this is so weak/tight
Profitability has so facets that attempting to claim that "such and such hands are not profitable to play" is ridiculous. Regardless of stacksize I'm getting 5:1 pot odds and am going to get raised here almost never by these guys.

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Do you think you are going to get yourself in much better spots than you ended up in on this hand? What is the best case scenario for you playing this OOP on every street? So many more times you're going to end up in marginal spots that will turn to -EV because you're OOP and you have minimal FE not taking the initiative and being the aggressor in the hand.

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not completing preflop is pretty retarded, but donking the flop isn't good either.

as played definitely value bet the river and call a shove

[wotttttttttt]

No offense, but the fact that most responses consist of debates of whether to fold preflop, bet/call or check call river gives me hope to the future profitability of online poker.

Against a LOOSE PASSIVE player, you want to exploit passivity by seeing more flops cheaply with hands that can hit big, valuebet wide ranges but fold to aggression. If he raises I'm ahead like never, if I'm going to bet and call a shove then I should just shove to begin with because he's muchmuchmuchmuchmuch more likely to call a shove with a naked ten than he is to shove a naked ten over my river third barrel. As in, he won't shove it. I am ~0% equity against his shoving raise on river.

The only profitable ways to play this river are to bet/fold and to open shove.

And to the people saying not to bet this flop: I'm ahead of their calling range on flop since they show up with baby FDs and underpairs often in pots like these. Plus I play like 35/28/4 so I have an image to maintain

Board: Th 7h 3c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 46.858% 45.57% 01.29% 125405 3556.50 { 8s7s }
Hand 1: 53.142% 51.85% 01.29% 142702 3556.50 { 22+, ATs+, Ah9h, Ah8h, Ah7h, Ah6h, Ah5h, Ah4h, Ah3h, Ah2h, KhQh, KhJh, KTs, Kh9h, Kh8h, QhJh, QTs, Qh9h, Qh8h, JTs, Jh9h, Jh8h, Jh7h, Jh6h, T6s+, 98s, 9h7h, 9h6h, 8h6h, 8h5h, 7h6h, 7h5h, 7h4h, 6h5h, 6h4h, 6h3h, 5h4h, 5h3h, 5h2h, 4h3h, 4h2h, 32s, ATo+, A3o, KTo, QTo, JTo, T7o+, 97o+, 75o+, 43o, 32o }

And I can play perfectly when any flushcard but the 8 comes because passive players turn their hands face up when they are strong.

[ICMoney]

If you bet and get raised on river are you assuming he will mostly have an overpair?

I said bet/fold initially. Just want to make sure I'm not always seeing monsters when I play against this kind of player.

I think he just calls with a good ten, right?

[wotttttttttt]

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If you bet and get raised on river are you assuming he will mostly have an overpair?

I said bet/fold initially. Just want to make sure I'm not always seeing monsters when I play against this kind of player.

I think he just calls with a good ten, right?

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A slowplayed overpair is the only thing I'm ahead of on river but generally they are scared of being sucked out on so they raise flop.

A shove on river is almost always a flush.

I'm debating whether JT/T9/99 etc. are folding to the shove but would call 3-4$, but then I could bet/fold.

[Rafpig]

River you should bet and call if he shoves. You can´t ever fold to a raise against a SS in this river IMO. And I really can´t believe I read people writing not to complete with SC´s. What´s most interesting for me is the flop decision. I tend to bet in similiar situations and giving up to the hand upon any resistance, unless I improve. People who recommend checking the flop, simply give up on the hand?

[Brian O'Nolan]

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Against a LOOSE PASSIVE player, you want to exploit passivity by seeing more flops cheaply with hands that can hit big, valuebet wide ranges but fold to aggression.

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The reason I said to fold pf is that I don't think you understand how important position is. Even more so against passive players at small stakes, because they rarely c/r or do anything tricky. Against these guys, you exploit their passivity by playing tons of pots in position. You seem pretty hung up on your stats- check your complete SB%, I bet it could stand to be lower.

[wotttttttttt]

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Against a LOOSE PASSIVE player, you want to exploit passivity by seeing more flops cheaply with hands that can hit big, valuebet wide ranges but fold to aggression.

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The reason I said to fold pf is that I don't think you understand how important position is. Even more so against passive players at small stakes, because they rarely c/r or do anything tricky. Against these guys, you exploit their passivity by playing tons of pots in position. You seem pretty hung up on your stats- check your complete SB%, I bet it could stand to be lower.

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I understand exactly how important position is. You're making broad assumptions and to say that "playing a certain hand OOP" is unprofitable, especially vs. passive players in a limped pot, is blatantly false.

Poker is about situations, of which hand type and position make up like 25%. Opponent, image, psychology, and skill edge also play huge parts in determining profitability, and to restrict yourself to a certain "system" of where to play which hands is level 1 thinking.

[wotttttttttt]

This is the decision I've come to, and is likely one of my leaks:

Against an opponent with this stack, I really needed to resolve my ambivalence and decide whether or not I wanted to play for stacks when the flush card came on the turn giving me 2pair. At the time I bet too small, indicating I didn't want to play for stacks, which I believe was the incorrect decision in this situation.

A better line would've been to pot flop pot turn shove river, and I think my opponent stacks with most tens vs. this line. After I played the turn I needed to make a small value bet on the river and fold to a shove, which is only done with a narrow range that I'm doing very poorly against.

[Brian O'Nolan]

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A better line would've been to pot flop pot turn shove river, and I think my opponent stacks with most tens vs. this line.

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So your villain in this hand is mostly never folding top pair type hands. Which means you're going to have to make 2pr or better to win at showdown for the most part with SC type hands. And I am assuming this guy goes to showdown fairly often. Explain again how playing this hand OOP vs a station, shortstacked, is profitable when you gain minimal FE playing your draws aggressively?