The house takes all the money.

[Scansion]

Yeah, if this isn't a level than this guy needs to find his way back to p5's.

[rocketsfan4lyfe]

That is why I dont play poker for a living, its for degens.

[Arnold_O]

[ QUOTE ]
Cash game rake, tournament fees, sngs fees etc are way too much money. $100 an hour + comes off the table in a cash game. 10% of EVERY prize pool goes to the house in tournaments and sit n gos. Its ridiculous. There is no doubt 8 out of 10 players lose in the long run.

Examining the rake/fees closely:

Low limit cash game. $100 an hour+ comes off the table or more. Say in a 10 hour period there is $4000 on the table. In 10 hours the house has 25% of the money, $1000. And this in just one day. Playing day in day out, the house gets allllll they money.

$100 Sit n go. 10% fee, 9 handed, $990 total $90 for the house. $900 left for the players. The best players are only avg $10 a sng profit these days, while the house took $90 for itself almost all of which is profit. And the majority of the players in these sngs are losing $10 per sng. THE HOUSE GETS ALLL THE MONEY.

$100 Heads up SNG. Each players pays $5 to the house. You are risking $105 to win $95. 5% disadvantage. Those odds are as bad as a roulette wheel.

$100+20 Multi-table Tournament = 17% of the prize pool to the house. Its a joke.

Through this silly card game they are able siphon away massive amounts of money from the average person. It's [censored].

Discuss.

[/ QUOTE ]i agree

[Abbaddabba]

[ QUOTE ]
Bob,accountant, weekly pay: $500. Joe, electrician, weekly pay $400. Sarah, waitress, weekly pay: $350. Dave, mechanic, weekly pay $450. Mike, hs math teacher, weekely pay: $500
Susan, mcdonalds, weekly pay: $200.

They all play 15 hours of online poker every week for a total of about 60 hours per month of online poker.
They play cash games, where every pot is raked $3 X 50 hands an hour. So they are paying $15 an hour X 60 hours per month , which means they are paying $900 a month in poker rake. Considering what the average person makes, it's beyond me how 90% of the players dont lose in the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

people who make $500 a week (or less) dont play nearly that much, or for stakes where it is max raked. playing $25NL, you get raked maybe a buck or two an hour per table.

losing isnt that bad in moderation if it provides entertainment.

losers at midstakes+ are either wealthy, or degenerates.

[costanza_g]

[ QUOTE ]
Bob,accountant, weekly pay: $500. Joe, electrician, weekly pay $400. Sarah, waitress, weekly pay: $350. Dave, mechanic, weekly pay $450. Mike, hs math teacher, weekely pay: $500
Susan, mcdonalds, weekly pay: $200.

They all play 15 hours of online poker every week for a total of about 60 hours per month of online poker.
They play cash games, where every pot is raked $3 X 50 hands an hour. So they are paying $15 an hour X 60 hours per month , which means they are paying $900 a month in poker rake. Considering what the average person makes, it's beyond me how 90% of the players dont lose in the long run.
ONLINE POKER IS THE EQUIVALENT OF FINANCIAL GENOCIDE AGAINST THE MASSES. LOL I'm telling it straight, I swear.

[/ QUOTE ]


So...what do you want us to do about it?

[IWINORIDIE]

"So...what do you want us to do about it?"

Come up with a plan for us to create a new site that is owned by a bunch of young wealthy poker players, we all put up money for it. And we promote it like crazy. A tons of young pros, 2+2ers, everyone wearing T-shirts at all the big telivised tournaments, in cardrooms around the country etc.

Or maybe get a bunch of rich young pros to contact world poker exchange to buy a piece of it and put up $$ for new software, and then be the posters boys for it.

Pokerstars, Full Tilt, Ultimate Bet etc. will never compete on rake. Lets just say there yearly profits are $300million with $3 per pot rake. If you cut it to $2, profits are down to $200, $1 profits are down to $100 million etc. Theyll never compete on rake.

The Poker Players Alliance should lobby for lower rake.
We are all being robbed blind, its UNBELIEVABLY OBVIOUS THE HOUSE TAKES ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL THE MONEY. WHAT THE MARKET IS BEARING IS ABSURD, CRAZY, RIDICULOUS. Do you guys see how capitalism works? 100,000 people who make between $35,000 -$50,000 are having huge amounts of their hard earned money gobbled up by the few owners of these sites. Literally, $10,000,000,000 from 1,000,000 people who make <50k is now in the bank accounts of Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer, Isai Scheinberg(pokerstars owners), Ben-Yitzhak family(888.com)Ruth Parasol(Party Poker). You got 10s of thousands of people paying/ losing thousands and thousands of dollars a year in rake. It's money for nothing. This is the least legit product ever. NAME ONE OTHER BUSINESS THAT GETS $2000 a MONTH FROM THE AVERAGE PERSON?????????? YOU CANT DO IT. IF THESE SITES HAD A FEW MILLION CUSTOMERS THEYD
BE THE MOST PROFITABLE BUSINESSES IN THE WORLD. $10 an hour, every hour, indefinitely to play cards against other people is nuts. It's [censored]. Were being robbed blind, WAKE UP. Its so obvious its ridiculous and most of you think im wrong or an idiot. Please wake up.

It's time for people to start complaining and do something about it. Casual poker players are paying $10,000+ a year to
play cards, because this is their hobby. The amount of money poker players pay to play poker is WRONG. It's morally wrong.

[LGs0pHT]

OP is right. It was incredible to watch what 2+2 was capable of when the Absoloute superuser fraud became known.

If they put the same energy into a project like the one you suggest, there would be a lot of money to save for all of us.

+ If I take a look at the "Rake" column in Pokertracker it makes me go sick.

[Flip-Flop]

I agree that the rake can go lower.
The answer is not in starting new sites but in putting pressure on the existing sites to offer much higher rakebacks.

They wont lose much dough by doing this because there are too many fools that play without rakeback and don`t care about it + a good number of players that have never heard the term and don`t even know what it is.

And anyone who likes to defend the online rake by comparing it to live play rake should try to figure out the difference (I know this might be hard for some) between the costs of maintaining a real world and a virtual one.

[PokerEveryDay]

There is some truth to what the OP is saying. BUT, this isn't the old days of poker where operators were taking 10% rake and busting everyone. Yeah 5% is pretty bad, BUT again, that is in full swing up to 5/10, and I'm talking LHE. Playing less than 1/2NL is the same killer. I have rakeback like a lot of people, but it's also like a rebate for an item you buy. You pay $200 for a nice cell phone with a rebate of $50 that takes 6-8 weeks. Why not just sell me the effen phone for $150 now? Again, there are many people who don't have rakeback, just like people who don't follow through with the rebate.

Seriously though, poker rake is similar to the old pyramid system. Sooner or later the whole world will go bust. The main difference is the money, and the less than avg. skilled poker players that exist in this world. This means, if it continuously gets fueled, the better players not only beat the current rake, but make good money. The % is still high, but not high enough where the better players can't win. It's pretty much a proven fact.

If someone can prove this theory wrong then I will quit the game.

[Ryanski]

Yes, this is a fine post with good points. So why does no one play on WSEX? Why are you not playing there? People are dumb, the sites get rich, nothing will change. GG.