STTF SNG->cash thread - Page 177

DevinLake · #**1761** 10-19-2007, 03:17 PM

calling is fine. Even though the overbet is usually the nutz.

cakewalk · #**1762** 10-19-2007, 03:21 PM

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calling is fine. Even though the overbet is usually the nutz.

[/ QUOTE ]

then why would calling be fine

Slim Pickens · #**1763** 10-19-2007, 03:27 PM

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Pretty ugly slim. I just fold preflop. I have a very narrow calling range from the blinds. oop sucks.

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Just to provide you some numbers. This is from my 36,000 hands this month.

Folded SB to Steal: 87.09%
Folded BB to Steal: 78.75%
Folded BB to Steal HU: 78.10%

I assume these are consistent with most. I think the "folded to bb steal" is yet so large because of all the foolios who min-raise, and I just can't seem to fold K2s to such good odds (especially multi-way).

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OK, well for 21k hands since I started taking cash at all seriously...

Folded SB to Steal: 86.12%
Folded BB to Steal: 70.73%
Folded BB to Steal HU: 67.84%

I'll be more selective from the blinds. Thanks for the tip.

cakewalk · #**1764** 10-19-2007, 03:49 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($256.85)
Hero ($226.45)
MP ($256.20)
CO ($292.70)
Button ($148.50)
SB ($239.65)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, Button calls $8, 1 fold, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $18, Button calls $18, BB folds.

Turn: ($61) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $38, Button folds.

this is more of a general theory question.

in hands where we have solid holdings on the flop, and the turn completes a draw, what do you guys thing villain is calling the turn with ?

here is what i came up with:

sometimes they call with the nuts (slowplay)
sometimes they called the flop with a weakish hand they're not calling two barrels with, but might be calling a river bet if we check the turn
example:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($311.35)
Hero ($529.10)
SB ($217.15)
BB ($200)
UTG ($258)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($17) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $13, BB calls $13.

Turn: ($43) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($43) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $21, BB calls $21.

Final Pot: $85

Results in white below: 
BB has 6c 6h (two pair, sixes and twos).
Hero has Qs Td (two pair, queens and twos).
Outcome: Hero wins $85. 

sometimes they raise our 2nd barrel on a very scary board, which although our hand has improved, we can't really continue
sometimes (best case scenario) they call 3 streets with their KJ/KT hand (referring to hand above)

so i guess bet/fold the turn for value/protection is the best play

DevinLake · #**1765** 10-19-2007, 04:06 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
calling is fine. Even though the overbet is usually the nutz.

[/ QUOTE ]

then why would calling be fine

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it can be the air, and some of these guys think a J high flush is the nutz.

ALReturnsLOL · #**1766** 10-19-2007, 04:56 PM

thoughts on this please

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Button ($272)
SB ($392)
BB ($487.50)
UTG ($741.10)
Hero ($421.70)
CO ($618.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $16, CO calls $16, 3 folds.

Flop: ($38) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $20, CO raises to $72, Hero calls $52.

Turn: ($182) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $124, Hero calls $124.

River: ($430) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $212. Hero

Slim Pickens · #**1767** 10-19-2007, 05:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
thoughts on this please

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Button ($272)
SB ($392)
BB ($487.50)
UTG ($741.10)
Hero ($421.70)
CO ($618.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $16, CO calls $16, 3 folds.

Flop: ($38) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $20, CO raises to $72, Hero calls $52.

Turn: ($182) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $124, Hero calls $124.

River: ($430) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $212. Hero

[/ QUOTE ]

On the plus side, you beat QT.

dipstikdave · #**1768** 10-19-2007, 11:32 PM

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Why insta check turn? worried about AK until he chacks river?

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def not worried about AK, just trying to get more money out of worse hands

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It was part of my 'plan'. The raise on the flop was suppose to look like a bluff. So, I thought the check behind would look like I'd given up.

After chatting with my coach about this hand last night, he thinks I should be betting the turn to get my stack in on the the river though. Said I was just being a tricky donk [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
i had similar thoughts. if villain is calling that flop and river with a worse hand, then you may be losing value by not betting the turn.

Dr_Jeckyl_00 · #**1769** 10-20-2007, 07:11 PM

OK, one of these hands was real, but it made me wonder if I should handle other straights differently. How would you play the hand in each of these three different scenerios?

Also, CO seamed fine, not a fish, not a pro.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($34.45)
BB ($34.10)
UTG ($14.10)
UTG+1 ($14.75)
MP1 ($24)
MP2 ($14.30)
CO ($63.55)
Button ($36.10)

Senerio 1... Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Senerio 2... Preflop: Hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Senerio 3... Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

UTG calls $0.25, 3 folds, CO raises to $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.90, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.75.

Flop: ($3.25) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, UTG folds.

Turn: ($4.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $2.25, Hero raises to $8, CO raises to $13.75, Hero raises to $32.7, CO calls $18.95.

River: ($70.15) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $70.15

DevinLake · #**1770** 10-20-2007, 07:30 PM

I'd fold pre with JTs.

I'd raise or fold 55, and ATs on the flop.

Depends on villain how I play JTs on the flop.

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