Betfred refuse to take action against disconnect abuse!

[luckyjimm]

I was cheated out of money by a player called Flygger yesterday morning who blatantly abused the all-in disconnect protection, unplugging his Internet connection when he didn't like my turn bet so he could see the river for free and get a free showdown. There is NO doubt in my mind he did this on purpose, it is absolutely clear cut. In the time we spent playing at the same table he had no connection problems and was taking part in the chat. Then suddenly when he doesn't like my bet, he cheatingly unplugs his connection, and reconnects a few minutes later to see if he's won.

Abuse of all-in protection should be treated very seriously as it completely undermines the integrity of the game. It allows players to effectively steal money. But Betfred is obviously a site which tolerates cheating, since they have refused to take any action against him.

They say the thief, Flygger, is "an established player who does not have any previous history of abuse. However the player does have a recent history of experiencing disconnections. Although the manner of these DP’s could be interpreted as suspicious they could also be genuine and they are by no means conclusive of abuse."

What a load of bollocks. There is NO way his disconnect was anything other than abuse. It is pathetic that Betfred will not take any action against him. At the very least, if he doesn't fit some impossibly stringent criteria of disconnect abuse defined by iPoker then Betfred should still make a value judgement from looking at the hand itself, and the chat before and after and pattern of play, to see that it was quite clearly cheating, and reimburse me my money. It is not the sum involved, which is small, but the principle of it.

Who can feel safe playing on Betfred when we know they won't take action against cheaters?

GAME #692026860: Omaha PL $0.50/$1.00 19-Oct-2007 06:18:53
Table "TURBO" Wenban
Seat 1: LuckyJimm ($103.30 in chips)
Seat 3: flyygger ($197.10 in chips) DEALER
Seat 5: ironlung77 ($41.75 in chips)
Seat 6: Docmabuse2 ($316.42 in chips)
Seat 8: koota43 ($72.90 in chips)
Seat 10: forfit ($207.65 in chips)
ironlung77: Post SB $0.50
Docmabuse2: Post BB $1.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to LuckyJimm [S8 C5 C6 S9]
Dealt to flyygger [C10 S2 SJ DJ]
koota43: Fold
forfit: Raise $3.50
LuckyJimm: Call $3.50
flyygger: Call $3.50
ironlung77: Fold
Docmabuse2: Fold
*** FLOP *** [S5 SQ DK]
forfit: Bet $11.00
LuckyJimm: Call $11.00
flyygger: Call $11.00
*** TURN *** [D7]
forfit: Check
LuckyJimm: Bet $45.00
flyygger: Allin $0.00
forfit: Fold
*** RIVER *** [D3]
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $87.75 Rake $2.25
LuckyJimm: wins $45.00
flyygger: wins $42.75

(For privacy reasons I've changed my screenname to LuckyJimm)

[Henry17]

Someone would really have to do this a few times before the site could do anything.

I have been on both ends of it. I have lost my connection and have had people claim I did it on purpose and I've had people disconnect that I was sure they did on purpose. Just e-mail support every time. Once a player has a few complaints a site will take away their all in protection. It does happen legitimately so if a first offence a site can't do anything.

[inyourface]

You need to raise more on the flop to isolate.

hehe, just kidding but seriously I just saw you post this on THMF. Bad luck but you probably did stop from going broke, he was never folding here and your getting stacked

[only1hammy]

Hi guys,

Firstly I would like to introduce myself, I am the Support Manager at Betfred Poker.

We are deeply dissapointed to read the above post which has been made. We take any DP abuse very seriously as it is in place to protect players should their internet connection be lost whilst involved in a pot.

Disconnection protection is obviously in place for genuine disconnections only.

If a player contacts us with concerns that another player may have abused the DP facility we will always complete a full investigation, as we do take such matters very seriously. Any player who misuses this protection by intentionally disconnecting, may:

Forfeit any monies won
Lose Disconnection Protection privileges
Face expulsion from the site

The information that was provided to us was then in turn brought to our network providers attention (iPoker) so that a full investigation could be completed.

The outcome of the investigation that was completed was provided to the player. It clearly showed that the player in question is an established player who does not have any previous history of abuse. However the player does have a recent history of experiencing disconnections. Although the manner of these disconnections could be interpreted as suspicious they could also be genuine and they are by no means conclusive of abuse.

As we are unable to conclusively state that player with the nickname ‘flyygger’ has been abusing their DP we are unable to offer a refund.

However, due to a number of recent disconnections by this player we have removed the Disconnection Protection facility. We have also recommended that before the DP privilege would be considered to be re-instated, the player should upgrade the internet connection and or the specifications of the computer being used to enable a better playing experience.

We have taken this action in the interest of all players and the general speed of the game.

Please note that we do have tables available where there is no Disconnection Protection offered these are available on a wide variety of games at all different levels for players to choose.

If anyone has any questions on the matter, please reply and I'll do my best to give an honest answer.

[luckyjimm]

What they've done here is cut and paste the original email they sent me.

Look at the hand. No [censored] way did he genuinely happen to disconnect just as he faced a bet he didn't like. No, he decided to cheat - knowing you would do nothing about it. You take no action against cheats, you don't defend your players against cheats. In the current climate that doesn't reflect at all well on Betfred, does it? The site where cheats go unpunished!

[luckyjimm]

I can only think of one time I've disconnected. I had raised preflop with AAxx and bet into my one opponent on a flop that was something like 67T. He raised me. Now, I was walking around the house with my laptop and at this exact moment walked outside with the laptop to smoke a cigarette on the patio. The wireless connection is dodgy outside, and the connection cut off. Disconnect protection kicked in, so I got to see a free turn and river, without having to find out if I was beat and safeguarding my preflop and flop bets. As it happened, I was beat and lost the hand. As it happened, I had entirely genuinely and without thought become disconnected. It looked really bad, but I was totally innocent. I had a hard time convincing the table of this when I came back. And, you know what, if I hadn't lost the hand anyway I think I should have had my money taken away. Sites have to take a MUCH stronger line against disconnect abuse. When it looks like cheating, 99% of the time it IS cheating. Sites shouldn't tolerate it.

[only1hammy]

Obviously you are very frustrated over this matter. However please note that the player in question has had his DP revoked. This is the maximum that we could do in this situation as, already stated, the player does not have a history of disconnecting during hands at crucial moments.

What else are we supposed to go on but the actions a player has previously taken over the lifetime of his account? The player showed a pattern of disconnections at random periods recently, and on this occasion it was on the turn card. So, as a precaution, we have revoked his DP until he can upgrade his connection.

I think everyone would agree that this is the most fair outcome on this matter.

[luckyjimm]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously you are very frustrated over this matter. However please note that the player in question has had his DP revoked. This is the maximum that we could do in this situation as, already stated, the player does not have a history of disconnecting during hands at crucial moments.

What else are we supposed to go on but the actions a player has previously taken over the lifetime of his account? The player showed a pattern of disconnections at random periods recently, and on this occasion it was on the turn card. So, as a precaution, we have revoked his DP until he can upgrade his connection.

I think everyone would agree that this is the most fair outcome on this matter.

[/ QUOTE ]


Bollocks. Look at the [censored] hand. Of course he's cheating. And it was the only time he disconnected during the long time we were at the same table. You should suspend his account and refund my money. Even if you're unprepared to do the former, you should certainly do the latter. Unless you like the reputation of being a site that allows its customers to be cheated?

[[Phill]]

Jimm,

Im inclined to agree with Betfred. They have a better reputation than you.

Also, what the hell do you want them to do?

[ QUOTE ]
The outcome of the investigation that was completed was provided to the player. It clearly showed that the player in question is an established player who does not have any previous history of abuse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop playing at games where you only have 2 buy ins, then you wont cry when you bluff and then lose a quarter of a buy in when some dude accidentally had his internet die on him.

Betfred has a pretty crappy server system or the software is just funky - i dont disconnect anywhere else (my computer and broadband is pretty damn bullet proof), but ive had a couple occassions in the past week of play there where it just stalled on me.

[luckyjimm]

[ QUOTE ]

Stop playing at games where you only have 2 buy ins


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks to a $1800 "upswing" I'm pretty well-rolled right now. It's not about the money.

[ QUOTE ]
Betfred has a pretty crappy server system or the software is just funky - i dont disconnect anywhere else (my computer and broadband is pretty damn bullet proof), but ive had a couple occassions in the past week of play there where it just stalled on me.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the problem is with their software, all the more reason for them to reimburse the players who suffer when it happens!

But I still am 100% convinced what happened here was intentional cheating. Look at the hand. It looks [censored] dodgy, doesn't it?