How would i lay this down? (Ace king)

Jaswarbrick · #1 10-10-2007, 10:13 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 (t1950)
MP2 (t1690)
CO (t1390)
Button (t1260)
SB (t2330)
Hero (t1460)
UTG (t2610)
UTG+1 (t810)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls t30, 3 folds, SB raises to t120, Hero calls t90, MP1 calls t90.

Flop: (t360) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t180, MP1 raises to t430, SB folds, Hero calls t250.

Turn: (t1220) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets t1400 (All-In), Hero calls t910 (All-In).

River: (t3530) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t3040

Insty · #2 10-10-2007, 10:56 AM

Good work on using a converter.
Please include the buyin in subject line.
Don't be results oriented.

auc hincloss · #3 10-10-2007, 11:05 AM

I dont know if I could, if you call on flop you're not folding a brick turn.

sean457j · #4 10-10-2007, 12:31 PM

Before calling his raise on the flop I think it's definitely worth running through your head 'what hands would he do this with'. The villain raises PF 4x the BB, then raises on the flop, looking like he wants to get all their chips in the middle at some point.

I think it's fair to say he would probably play these hands in that way:

TT - 3 (possible combinations)
QQ - 3
AA - 1
AQ - 6
AT - 6
Possibly KJ (16 combinations) - although this is less likely

The only hand I could see him doing this with (which you beat) would be AJ - 8 possible combinations.

If you can count a bunch of hands that beat you - that also make logical sense by the way he has played so far (e.g. 33 is beating you by the turn but it is fair enough to say he would have to be a total maniac to play it that way so far - therefore you can fairly discount it from his range) and you estimate there is not that many possible hands you are beating, then you can make good laydowns.

pdiggz · #5 10-10-2007, 01:37 PM

What about c/c flop instead of b/c? The board hit a lot of hands pretty hard. It is still early on here. Would a KQ or QJ hand raise this flop?

I think I play this hand more conservative this early.

Another question - if you call the flop raise and then get it in on the turn, why not just shove over his raise on the flop?

Jaswarbrick · #6 10-10-2007, 01:51 PM

Thanks everyone.

Sean, you say the villain raised 4x BB preflop, but that was somebody else which was the guy in the small blind. The villain was in middle position and limped and called a raise preflop. Thanks for the little summary part saying how many possible combinations there are that are beating me. Should i run through an analysis like this before calling.

Say if on a totally different hand and i get say, 20 possible combinations that are beating me, and 10 that i am beating. Would that mean that i would need 20/10 = 2 to 1 pot odds to call that bet?

What if say i estimate that 10 possible combinations are beating me, and 10 that i am beating. Would i need 10/10 = 1 to 1 pot odds to call. But 1 to 1 pot odds is actually impossible, so i would have to call, right?

sean457j · #7 10-10-2007, 07:24 PM

I am not that sure how much you can apply it exactly to pot odds, however if I have to make a big call and I can count a ton of logical played hands that are beating me it definitely leads me to conclude I should fold.

I think I heard Gavin Smith on the pokerwire podcast talking about making a big call once for most of his stack. Because he could count enough hands (that his opponent could logically be on) that he could beat compared to what the amount he was losing to he decided to make the call.

SammyKid11 · #8 10-10-2007, 07:26 PM

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How would i lay this down?

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There's usually a button that says fold. I'd press it here.

sippin_criss · #9 10-10-2007, 07:52 PM

I'm checking the flop and seeing what happens. This is a crappy flop for AK esp. since you don't have impetus.

jkpoker · #10 10-10-2007, 08:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm checking the flop and seeing what happens. This is a crappy flop for AK esp. since you don't have impetus.

[/ QUOTE ]
keep pot small try to get threw hand cheap its early