button vs SB

[Entity]

I wouldn't *always* raise the flop but for the most part the hand looks standard.

[chezlaw]

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Had you got c/r on the turn & a blank hit the river you folding?

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faster than the England cricket team.

chez

[slik]

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I don't think villain bets the turn with AK/KJ/77 after you call the flop.


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Hmm, I probably fire the turn with all of those hands in this situation. Not saying it's right though.

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Yes, I believe that most villains autobet nearly every flop and turn. This checking the turn business if he missed is wishful thinking.

[slik]

I can't say raising is definitively better than calling -- you definitely need to mix up your play here against a decent opponent. Any ratio between 60/40 between raising and calling the flop seems reasonable to me. However, raising does give you the option of seeing a cheaper showdown, and typically when the decision is close, it's better to choose the more aggressive route (but against a decent regular you need to mix it up).

[slik]

You're checking the river on a blank, right? Other streets seem ok (with a mix of calling on the flop sometimes).

[jt1]

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I wouldn't *always* raise the flop but for the most part the hand looks standard.


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Why would you raise, Entity?

[Entity]

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I wouldn't *always* raise the flop but for the most part the hand looks standard.


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Why would you raise, Entity?

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Because I'm ahead a large % of the time but the board is draw-friendly enough for me to convince my opponent I *coudl* be semibluffing and get more bets that way.

Rob

[jt1]

Why? Are you planning on betting the river UI? If not then you collect 2 bb. By just calling you gain potentially 2.5 bb(His check on the river could convince you that he was drawing and you occassionaly get an extra bb that way).

You will collect more bets by calling than by raising. Agree?

[Entity]

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Why? Are you planning on betting the river UI? If not then you collect 2 bb. By just calling you gain potentially 2.5 bb(His check on the river could convince you that he was drawing and you occassionaly get an extra bb that way).

You will collect more bets by calling than by raising. Agree?

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Completely disagree. Raising allows you to get more bets in the pot when you have good equity against a fair portion of his hands and prevents him from check-calling any streets with a draw. Like I said, I wouldn't raise the flop all the time (it's largely a function of what hands I feel he'd 3bet with so I can accurately determine my equity in the hand based on his flop action), but I would raise it sometimes. MANY small stakes players will 3bet PF here with AK and call you down after a flop raise, allowing you to net 3BB when you don't improve and more when you do (the specific card that hits limits your implied odds but still gives you fine effective odds most of the time).

Basically what I'm saying is that if you were to choose a street to raise based on the fact that your opponent continuation-bet a Q98 flop and you had J8 every time, I'd raise the flop rather than the turn and definitely rather than the river, and though I wouldn't raise the flop all the time, I find it to be a perfectly fine play.

Saying that calling wins more than raising here is genuinely misguided and gives your opponents way too much credit for finding folds on draw-friendly boards.

Rob

[jt1]

No. That's completely wrong. After raising the flop and betting the turn, are you not planning to check the river through? That line wins 2 bb from hands like AT, AQ, AJ & KJ and pretty much any ace high hand (most of the time).

By calling the flop and turn, you get 1.5 bb. And it makes a much easier river decision which is where you will gain 1 bb when it works out for you and save yourself that extra .5bb when it doesn't. (Talking about that .5 bb more you pay in hopes of getting an extra .5 bb from him)

Ironically, checking leaves you in greater control of the hand. It allows you to play better than your opponent on the river. Your line leaves you in limbo on the river. By raising the flop you are sacrificing an entire street of betting.

Okay, it just came through. I understand where you are coming from. You believe that Hero has an equity edge and he should push it. I think Hero's equity edge is not so great. It's anywhere between 33% to 75% and I'm GUESSING that the median is near 50%. It is my opinion that this hand is very much like the TT hand in SSHE chapter "2 overcard hands" There are some very important differences and you'll notice that the AA hand had 50% equity and recommends raising. And this J8 has an estimated 50% equity. The difference is that this hand is HU and that hand is multi-way. Of course you want to push your equity multi-way with 50% equity. But HU, it's better to use discretion with such a narrow edge.

Do you agree now?