I hate folding and calling

[Apanage]

I know what you mean I met those players also. But there is also a quite large group of 70/10 passive guys that are very predictable in their preflop raising.And a cap preflop and a bet on this flop against 3 opponents is a red warning flag since even he must understand that someone of the preflop raisers must have an ace.
As I said in my post it is probably correct to peel flop before we know what 70/10 camp he is in.But I don´t believe it is so evident that some posters says it is.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
Being loose preflop and just raise 10% of the time IMO often means that he only caps QQ/KK/AA from BB against two different raisers.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am not saying this estiamate is wrong, only that it is not my experience. I can not count the number of times I have been 3-bettet or capped by a a 50/5 guy with a medium to low pocket, he then follows through with betting to the river on all sorts of boards cuz he is not played back at.

I want to say it again: DONT GIVE UNREASONABLE PLAYERS CREDIT FOR RAISING REASONABLE HANDS.

They dont think like a 2p2 poster. They see the action and go "meh, I call", or "meh, I raise". They dont follow rules and they dont read 2p2 or use poker stove. They use their "gut feeling" and "intuition" and they SUCK!


The guy is an idiot and the pot is big = I want to see a SD. I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if villain flips over 87s, JTs or 55 or some other crap.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
Changing seats is IMO absolutely vital to optimize profit.
I would estimate the difference to be 1-2 BB/100 to sit to the left instead of the right against a bad passive player.

[/ QUOTE ]
makes sense. I make a big effort to select a good seat (which makes me think I was probably as close to the left as I was getting) but never make the effort to change.

[ QUOTE ]
I fold flop but it is not necessarily an easy flop to fold and probably even not a correct one. But I know I will lose tons of money if villain has AA. And AA is a real strong possibility after seeing this preflop action.All flush draws also have redraws against made JJ trips.
Someone holding KQ is also a threat.

I really don´t think our implied odds are that excellent if we take that into consideration even if they still exist.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think they're good because I think I'm a decent favorite to win if I hit and there's two people squeezed in between who may put in a few dead (or nearly dead) big bets.

chez

[Apanage]

Unreasonable players comes in different shapes.
There are a lot of 50/5 and 70/10 players that are more predictable than 2+2 TAGS when it comes to raising.
Those players have the goods when they raise or CAP.
Postflop it is hard to put them on a hand except that we know that they have us beat when they raise or bet.
Preflop it is also easy to see what those players have in this kind of hand.
The problem here is to determine what kind of unreasonable player he is.
As always I respect your opinion.But I´m a little bit surprised what you posted in this post. Because it means that all players with unreasonable stats (seen as a deviation from correct VP$IP and PFR) can do anything in a hand.
That thinking kind of overthrows all my knowledge about loose passives and basically all my knowledge about how we win the vast majority of our dollars.Namely by getting out of the way when the fish starts to bets and raise.
It is not obvious that villain in this hand is a loose passive but if he is we should play accordingly.

That being said without referring to the actual hand.

[TheWunderkind]

I always change seats, id never sit at a table if i dont have pos an money machine

there are diff types of 10% PFR players, some really raise only the top 10% and cap TT+ others almost always call those hands but love to cap with TJs and open raise T7s UTG...

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
It is not obvious that villain in this hand is a loose passive but if he is we should play accordingly.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is unreasonable and we should play accordingly.

I completely agree with you that there are plenty of predictable fish. But in this spot we dont know whether he is predictable or capable or raising 55, JTs or whatever.

BTW I dont think I have said its an easy call or even a correct call. I am just trying to push the point that giving fish credit for big hands b/c they played the hand like a monster is dangerous.