Cheating at AP, updated cliff notes

[saskatonian]

edited it out for ya

[tolbiny]

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If you're not going to be satisfied with anything but a complete mea culpa on AP's part, you'd have a better chance waiting to see flying pigs and hell frozen over. You ahave to look at this from a realistic perspective, and what we can honestly expect and not expect from this.

Let's be serious, guys. The return of the money would mean far more than just a goodwill return of funds. If AP determines that they will suffer MORE from doing the right thing than their current platform of denial, then they will continue down the road of denial.

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Dan,
I could not disagree with you more on this. When a company commits fraud like this, or has practices that allow fraud to go unrecognized, that company must suffer for the betterment of the industry. Accepting a partial admission or apology from Absolute is to reward them for their cover up attempts, and not punish them to the extent that they deserve for their infractions. There is a very simple way to push for a full, or near full, admission. When you told them you would not play Absolute until this was resolved they took action. the same thing, but on a larger scale is needed. Everyone who is angry at this event needs to say "I won't play at Absolute without a full admission". Then they need to say "I will play again, consider playing again after that admission", the pain of lying needs to be greater than the pain of telling the truth, since it is the truth that we want.

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Why do I think lightning won't strike again? Everyone will be watching. Everyone will be suspicious. This whole thing almost brought them down once. Trust me -- if they get themselves out of this, there's no way they will ever risk this happening again. Even if security wasn't competent enough to catch this initially, you can bet they will make the necessary adjustments now.

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Your wrong, letting someone off to easy far more likely to cause a recurrence than pushing for full disclosure and full repercussions. When you reward people for lying you get more liars.

[Rips]

That msn convo about the programming cointains no usefull or right information. That is not how any paid programmers would design a system for online gambling. It is not safe at all, and it would be so easy to exploit that it would have been impossible for anyone to play online poker. Every third person would have done it by now.

[AaronL]

also, if the goal is to educate the players at AP, it seems like the best advertising might be to spam links to key articles through observer chat (until the feature is taken away)... just a thought...

[jcsmitty22]

who cares about the satellites just LOOK AT THEIR ROI'S lmao.. im not saying each and every one of them is a scammer, but you have to agree that at least ONE of them is and that has to be a fact, hence neglecting this and callign it a witch hunt might cause us to miss somethin...

[pokerstudAA]

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ALL:

It'll be easy enough to figure out if "kohleppel" is a superuser.

The guy who came in 2nd to him in the $500 is McShove, a regular 2+2er.

Wait until he gets the HH back, and then it'll be easy to determine whether it was cheating or not as it's pretty hard to hide the fact that you know what the other player has when playing HU.

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Someone who knows McShove should get on this ASAP. He should have at least a few tables worth of hands played with kohleppel. Who knows - Absolute might send him the complete .xls file for the tourney.

[ibluffoldladies]

I think something that people should really look for are accounts that have few events played and some big scores. How normal is it for somebody to play one or two tournaments, make huge scores, and cash out? I know this is a LDO post but I'm just throwing it out there.

[MicroBob]

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Nearly 22000 players on AP right now (yes I know that includes play money). 95% of poker players have no idea what 2+2 is. This will have virtually no impact on Absolute. Everyone has predicted the demise of Absolute many times over (bonus changes, rake changes, Bad beat jackpot changes, etc) and it has never happened.

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this holds true right now, but if the scandal ever catches on with a national/global media outlet... AP is screwed.

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As I mentioned in a previous post in this thread, I really disagree.

I've seen all kinds of incorrect stories about how it's illegal to play internet-poker...and also saw stories about how online-poker is always rigged against the human players who have virtually no chance against all those cheaters who can see everyone's hole-cards and/or all those bots that can never lose.

I've seen such stories on REGULAR news programs in the U.S.

They do serve to feed the fears who are paranoid about it and may push some into not giving it a try. But, for the most part, these stories did very little.

Such stories airing on a national scale would not be that big a deal because there are so many out there who would say, "Ummm, didn't we already know there were cheaters and it was all rigged? They aren't telling us anything new."

You are operating on the assumption that everyone already actually understands that all of these online-poker sites are legit, they don't steal your money, and that the games are 100% fair.
Most of the country would be more surprised to find out how much closer to the truth that actually is vs. some story about how some people lost money via a cheater online which they would have already assumed happened all the time.

[Josem]

re: AP's choices -


In my "business" (Australian politics) if you have a bad situation arise, there are basically two options you have:

1) Ignore the issue, and hope it blows over.
Realistically, I suspect that this is viable for Absolute. Many customers just don't care, and since the brand name is damaged, they can reduce their promotion of the AP brand and instead focus on promoting UB. This is a viable business option for them.

2) Get on the front foot, come clean, and take new steps to fix the problem for the future.
This strategy has been used in recent years very successfully by a few folks here in Australia - Bob Carr and Peter Beattie are famous exponents of it. Here, they get on the front foot and make themselves as crusaders against cheating.

I genuinely believe that #2 is viable as well, and that if they put in the effort, they can do it.

[andersd]

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OSCAR is more suspicious than koehl from those DB's. I put one at 95% and the other at 80% from that alone. Of course, we need hand histories to know for sure.

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Well I just read we shouldn't include more accounts but couldn't resist.

http://www.digg.com/offbeat_news/Abs...lown_Wide_Open

Second posters name is ImOscar who is saying this is all bull$hit.

Probably nothing. just remembered that name from there.