AK PF kinda sticky situation, Stars 25 buy in

[Mingdu]

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Black,
You are right. I should stick to freerolls and $1 tourneys. These $25 buyin players are way too advanced for me.

Oh, and folding QQ preflop when 50 bbs deep... or folding KK preflop in the WSOP. If only I had enough high buyin experience I might be able to make those expert plays.

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Don't be sorry. Leveling does not belong in the MTT strategy forums. Take it to BBV escape.

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hehe [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Sherman]

It doesn't get any more +EV than shoving here. The only other option is...(ZOMG!)...folding.

Folding isn't bad if you can put him on KK/AA. But if QQ is in there you have way way too much overlay to fold.

So shove.

Edit: To not sound like a hilljack.

[Cornell Fiji]

Mingdu,

One of the few times I have laughed out loud at a post. You owned me with my own words. NH

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Black,
I just realized that you said that you would instafold QQ to a shove. Do you understand that that means that AK should shove against you 100% of the time?

[Stumpy]

Sherman,

I realize you don't really think his range is QQ+, but we're 30% against QQ+, so I'd recommend folding if that was the case. We're only 39% against AK+, QQ+, so that'd be a fold too.

Fiji, can you suggest what you think the guys re-raising range is, and what part of that range calls the shove? Because I think being 5 from the money makes this a bit more interesting than a normal situation.

I don't agree with Black, but I do think the 10k raise after a cold caller is suspiciously small. Unfortunately, it's either because the guy is unwilling to go broke, or because he has a huge hand and wants action, and I'm not sure which.

[black666]

[ QUOTE ]

Black,
I just realized that you said that you would instafold QQ to a shove. Do you understand that that means that AK should shove against you 100% of the time?

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Yeah...why not? I'll be very happy to add those 50 BBs into my stack when I instacall with AA/KK. And once you begin to shove more and more because you think that you can bully me around, I'm also going to expand my calling range.
But without any good reads (and I'm not talking about those "I've been at the table for 15 hands and he raised 7 of them" reads) there is no reason to risk a 50 BB stack in a raising war where we are a coinflip AT BEST if called. Most of the time we are toast.

I would much rather call 17 3xBB raises with a SC or medium PP trying to hit a big flop, than shoving 50xBB preflop with A-high.
I shove 20xBB with AK all the day long, but there is a point where my stack is so deep that the risk/reward ratio simply isn't worth it. A 50xBB stack is HUGE in a tournament. Why not take those gambles against the shorter stacks and attack the big stack with a made hand? (note: AK is a NOT a made hand)

btw: your previous post looks more like something I would expect at P5s...

[registrar]

People raise-fold 99-JJ and AK here - you know that, right? They decide that they can make better use of those additional 40 BBs this deep.

[black666]

[ QUOTE ]
People raise-fold 99-JJ and AK here - you know that, right?

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The question is: with what hand do they call a 50xBB shove against an UTG re-re-raiser here? And this range is nowhere near AK,99+

[Stumpy]

[ QUOTE ]
People raise-fold 99-JJ and AK here - you know that, right? They decide that they can make better use of those additional 40 BBs this deep.

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I think JJ folds a lot less often than AK.

Fiji says AQ calls. So Registrar, what do you think a good standard re-raise range would be, and what of that calls the push?

[registrar]

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People raise-fold 99-JJ and AK here - you know that, right?

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The question is: with what hand do they call a 50xBB shove against an UTG re-re-raiser here? And this range is nowhere near AK,99+

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But that's cool. He folds a load of better hands, the same hand and a load of hands that don't put another chip in unimproved. We want him to fold 99-JJ, AQ+ here because he's not paying us off when we hit the flop and not often folding when we don't.

[TFGoose]

Interesting commentary... I also wanted to put the following thought in for the "I call" advocates. What do you do when you make the 10K call and MP2 (who is now being asked to put over 40% of his chips in preflop) decides to just shove the rest in right now? If BB calls, what do you do? If he shoves, what then? This is a very real possibility that I think needs to be considered.

Just one other reason why I think this decision is push or fold, and for the record, I shove this all day.

--TFGoose