Nitty fold or prudent? PL$200

[glass_onion]

Sorry, converter not working here. This was posted in another forum, in which an arguement ensued. Hero had just came to the table (really, not an excuse for no real reads).

Hero was thinking about raising flop, but "The turn figures to be a big equity swing for our hand, if we like what we see and the action we then can jam the pot with total commitment."

On the turn, it was the RR from "Any_97" that seemed to show a lot of strenght. Assuming a competent opponent, what range do you see this mini raise coming from? Note also that he has a full stack, as does another opponents who has already called, while a 3rd is pot commited, 4th yet to act. I'll reserve my comments until a few viewpoints have been posted.

Seat 1: Any_97 ( $ 197.90 USD )
Seat 2: harvig2 ( $ 25.10 USD )
Seat 3: HERO ( $ 262.10 USD )
Seat 4: supertopform ( $ 287.80 USD )
Seat 5: jonkajl ( $ 27 USD )
Seat 7: GraveDiggah_ ( $ 479.78 USD )
Seat 8: shocun ( $ 260.25 USD )
Seat 10: TheHumanChord ( $ 816.71 USD )
Seat 6: Zerberus666 ( $ 197 USD )
supertopform posts small blind [$ 1 USD].
jonkajl posts big blind [$ 2 USD].


** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Ad Js 8h 8d ]
Zerberus666 folds
GraveDiggah_ calls [$ 2 USD]
shocun folds
TheHumanChord folds
Any_97 calls [$ 2 USD]
harvig2 folds
HERO calls [$ 2 USD]
supertopform calls [$ 1 USD]
jonkajl checks

** Dealing Flop ** [ Tc, 8s, 4h ]

supertopform checks
jonkajl checks
GraveDiggah_ bets [$ 9.50 USD]
Any_97 calls [$ 9.50 USD]
HERO calls [$ 9.50 USD]
supertopform calls [$ 9.50 USD]
jonkajl calls [$ 9.50 USD]

** Dealing Turn ** [ Ah ]
supertopform checks
jonkajl is all-In [$ 15.50 USD]
GraveDiggah_ calls [$ 15.50 USD]
***
Any_97 raises [$ 31 USD]
***
Hero???

[wazz]

jonkajl almost certainly has a draw, as does gravediggah. I'd be inclined to put gravediggah on some QJ9x hand, and jonkajl a gutshot (to the nuts) with a heart draw. Having said that, any_97's range includes less drawing hands and more made hands. Most of the made hands will be beating you - it's quite possible he was playing top set second-low with that many people left to act afterwards - though a set of aces is unlikely. I tend to fold this, despite suspecting I have the best made hand - when you are ahead, you rarely get paid off if you boat up on the river or it blanks, and you have no idea which drawing hands all the villains have. On your side is your concealed strength, but it's difficult to get paid off by worse made hands here, though raising here is not horrible. If flat-called in one or more spots you can be fairly confident all villains are drawing and can play river well in position.

Fold (slightly) > 3/4 potraise > potraise > call.

[glass_onion]

[ QUOTE ]
jonkajl almost certainly has a draw, as does gravediggah. I'd be inclined to put gravediggah on some QJ9x hand, and jonkajl a gutshot (to the nuts) with a heart draw. Having said that, any_97's range includes less drawing hands and more made hands. Most of the made hands will be beating you - it's quite possible he was playing top set second-low with that many people left to act afterwards - though a set of aces is unlikely. I tend to fold this, despite suspecting I have the best made hand - when you are ahead, you rarely get paid off if you boat up on the river or it blanks, and you have no idea which drawing hands all the villains have. On your side is your concealed strength, but it's difficult to get paid off by worse made hands here, though raising here is not horrible. If flat-called in one or more spots you can be fairly confident all villains are drawing and can play river well in position.

Fold (slightly) > 3/4 potraise > potraise > call.

[/ QUOTE ]


One of the best commentaries i've seen on here, whether I agree with it or not. I must need to get better with my hand ranges, becuase when I see 4 people in a pot like this I just start assuming that all the draws are out and don't take the time to figure out who likely has what.

Any_91 is another case. I aggree his range has to be made hands, but that min-rerase ?!?! To me it feels like he is begging to be repopped so he can get it in with some draws and a lower set. I've folded some winners in these spots though.

I know my min reraise range here is AAxx where xx includes some of the st8 outs and of course the NFD. I mean seriously??? And that's of course a joke, because I'd be betting 3/4 or so with THAT just in case my NFD came in and people started shutting down, and I'd want to get smaller sets to get pot commmitted. LOL, what a wierd bet.

[spino1i]

I guess im a donk but i raise the pot here. I just find this such an unusual way to play TTxx on the villains part. AAxx is very unlikely since you already have an A in your hand. This minraise could be his way of testing the waters with bottom set or a big two pair.

[wazz]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess im a donk but i raise the pot here. I just find this such an unusual way to play TTxx on the villains part. AAxx is very unlikely since you already have an A in your hand. This minraise could be his way of testing the waters with bottom set or a big two pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

You never seen someone flat-call a bet with top set with people left to act behind?