top 50 players in NBA history

[Hornacek]

for shlts and giggles... (i don't even know why people are still arguing with this tard)

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Isiah
4. Stockton

(these 4 cannot be touched, imo)

5. Cousy
6. Tiny
7. Kidd
8. Nash
9. Frazier
10. Payton
11. Eric Snow

[Taraz]

[ QUOTE ]
for shlts and giggles... (i don't even know why people are still arguing with this tard)

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Isiah
4. Stockton

(these 4 cannot be touched, imo)

5. Cousy
6. Tiny
7. Kidd
8. Nash
9. Frazier
10. Payton
11. Eric Snow

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow I was going to post the exact same thing with a few minor adjustments. I have Stockton and Isiah flipped. I'm surprised you have Tiny so high and Frazier that low though.

[Hornacek]

Stockton has the stats, Isiah has the rings. I'll take the rings. It's very close though.

[Taraz]

[ QUOTE ]
Stockton has the stats, Isiah has the rings. I'll take the rings. It's very close though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I agree it's really close. I think Isiah had a much better supporting cast though. I'm also more of a fan of passing point guards over scoring points.

[Pudge714]

Why is there not more love for Payton?
He played in a really slow offense which hurts his offensive numbers, but he still put up solid numbers.
He always played a ton of minutes
He was great defensively.

[Taraz]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is there not more love for Payton?
He played in a really slow offense which hurts his offensive numbers, but he still put up solid numbers.
He always played a ton of minutes
He was great defensively.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who would you put him over?

[kutuz_off]

[ QUOTE ]
Stockton has the stats, Isiah has the rings. I'll take the rings. It's very close though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please read 2nd reply by "erudite23" in the following link to see why you are wrong: http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=636243

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is there not more love for Payton?
He played in a really slow offense which hurts his offensive numbers, but he still put up solid numbers.
He always played a ton of minutes
He was great defensively.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah (see my post above) - I am looking at their stats, remembering Payton at his peak on the Sonics... I'm having a hard time seeing why Kidd is better. Better defender, much better offensive weapon / shooter / creator... the only edge Kidd has is I guess leadership (questionable) and much higher career assist average (in large part cause he took less shots also Payton as Pudge mentioned was in slower-paced / less FGA offenses).

Don't get me wrong I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Kidd's game and perhaps I'm overrating Payton... just leaping to his defense is all.

-Al

[teamdonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is there not more love for Payton?
He played in a really slow offense which hurts his offensive numbers, but he still put up solid numbers.
He always played a ton of minutes
He was great defensively.

[/ QUOTE ]

i loved Payton. He was an all around great, but that's one hell of a list to move up.

the obvious knock on Nash in these all-time things is his slow start. Even with 4 years of college, he didn't start playing at a close-to-all-star level until his 5th NBA season. His career right now looks very comparable to Mark Price's, and i don't see anyone mentioning him here. Right now i put guys like Payton and even AI over him because their entire body of work is better. That could change quickly with a few more seasons though.

BobbiFitos - you could make the arguement that Stockton > Magic. Except you could also argue than Malone > Kareem (this would be a fun arguement), and Hornacek > Worthy. Why then is Lakers rings > Jazz rings? The answer is partly "Michael Jordan", but i think mostly it's Magic.

[Vincent]

From this old post/thread.

[ QUOTE ]

Simmons list is wrong, but it could be right, given his very subjective criteria. Stockton should definitely be #3, behind Magic & Oscar. Overall Simmons did a pretty good job by leaving out guys like Cheeks, Dennis Johnson, Mark Jackson & whomever else people like throw into these type of discussions.

My list is based on the hypothetical that I could create a team, and I got to choose any PG to start.

List of best players ever to play PG, using Simmons' list:
The top three are in the correct order, and isn't debatable.
1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Stockton
The order of #4 to 6 may vary.
4. Payton
5. Frazier
6. Kidd
The order of #7 to 10 may vary, but probably doesn't.
7. Cousy
8. Isiah
9. Nash
10. Tiny

I had a lot of trouble w/ Payton, Frazier & Kidd. Depending on the second, I find myself creating arguments for putting one ahead of another. I think it's very debatable, and it's extremely close.

#7 to 10 which includes Cousy, Isiah, Nash & Tiny is somewhat close also, but I'm pretty sure this is right.

Kidd & Nash both have a few years left, so they could technically move up. However, there's pretty much no way Kidd will rise above #4, and Nash's ceiling is at #7.

When I saw this post, Jerry West was one of the guys that immediately came to mind. I guess he was left off this list, b/c he's categorized as a SG, which is debatable. Otherwise he is #3, which isn't debatable.

Iverson is a name that's come up. And if we considered AI a PG, then Iverson is in at #7, ahead of Cousy, and after the Frazier, Kidd, Payton trio. His place really isn't debatable. He is definitely better than Cousy, and worse than the trio. He could also move up, but it's also possible for Nash to pass him. I don't think either is likely of happening.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only thing I may have to change is that I may have to bump Nash up to #7 as a lock. The other thing I want to stress is that, although he was very good, Isiah Thomas is & has always been overrated.