FTP 55 NLTRN River Decision vs Berating Semi-tard

[Landonfan]

1) Bluff-catchers, I guess. So I'd say any pair up to Kx, maybe even a weak A.

2) Gah, I want more history before I have a definite answer to this. How does he view you? Is he just bitching out of frustration, or does he really think you're a fish?

How is his play? If he's somewhat aware, he has to put you on a weak hand and shouldn't be making a value bet like this. If he really is retarded, then he can v-bet like this.

Did the flush get there on the river?

[ChicagoRy]

No flush did not get there on river.

Earlier in the match during first blind level when he started berating me I asked if he wanted to do a 88/110/220 and he ignored me for a few hands before resuming his harassment. So he may view me as good or may just not want to play higher. He seems more focused on himself rather than me, I honestly am not sure what my image is here, slightly aggressive if not neutral. I doubt he thinks I'm a blufftard or tight ass but I think I've called him light once or twice in the match so far. I'll look for the HH tonight or tomorrow.

FWIW I wouldn't post this if I thought he were shoving a K or T here. I also would have been less likely to ask him to play higher if he made those types of plays irregularly.

[Landonfan]

The best I can do is say it's either a dumbass v-bet or a frustrated bluff. I never know which. Flip a coin, I guess [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

[ChicagoRy]

So if that's your analysis you mean villain is only shoving with air or a monster hand? Then you'd have to widen your calling range, no?

[Landonfan]

He could take this line with any ace because your hand looks so weak. His range is obviously skewed more towards monsters and air, but you can't discount one pair.

Also, I don't think you can base your river calling range on his turn betting range (if that's what you're doing, I'm not positive what you meant). He's following through with all of his big hands, but not all of his bluffs.

You're getting like 1.7:1 here, so he has to be bluffing ~37% to make a call breakeven, right? That math is a really rough estimate, but I think it's in the neighborhood of correct. Based on that, I'd still flip a coin [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

[ChicagoRy]

Ok I just found and looked through the HH.

Villain has checked OOP in same type of situation with a weak ace as top pair. checked the turn and minbet the river when I checked behind turn.

He's also checked down with top pair in another hand, not the same situation as the last two but he's definitely not value betting his pairs hard, regardless of TPTK or 2nd-3rd pair.

It's debatable if he does this with two pair on the turn, but that probably doesn't change our decision with a weak ace through QT type hands from being the same to different imo.

The strongest single pair I expect him to bet on the turn is probably like 99. Maybe a T. I know that sounds/is bad but he is a bad player. It's quite possible he won't bet anything stronger than an 8 here, but that's a very error prone statement. I would, however, wager that his best pair betting the turn is an 8 before I would wager that his best pair on the turn bet is a K. If that makes any sense.

[waxhax0rs]

The more important question is not what he pot the turn with, but what does he pot the turn with and shove on the river. Seems like a confusing player. Is 79 conceivable or does he seem like the type that would try to desperately get a call out of you even if it means giving up tons of value by betting really small? He may be bad but he may be smart enough to realize he's been potting the turn everytime as a bluff and now he's going to do it with a real hand. Hence the continuation on the river (trying to make you think he's bluffing). I'm assuming the other times that he potted the turn and you called that he gave up on the river. He's obviously tilted and trying to be tricky and outplay you, so it's hard to figure out what's going through his crazed mind. Lots of typing with basically no conclusion. He's obviously usually really strong or pretty weak but I can't figure out how you would tell the difference.

[mjws00]

Is it really that common for villian to shove the river, with much less than 2 pair here? If you've proven you fold reliably, perhaps he can do this light, but it seems unlikely. If he is starting to play push fold to go for a kill (early) I dump this one and look for a pattern.

I can't think of a hand I'd play this way that I can call with here past a set of 6's. Possibly think about calling with AT. I would give him 1 or 2 of these before I open my range up to TPGK. Doesn't seem like a good point to snap off a bluff.

Feels a little weak tight, but if I'm villian I'm almost always making a shove like this with AT or better, if you'll fold I'll up the frequency to include AQ type hands but at this point 1750 v 1250 I don't want to double you up by overplaying. I rarely check this flop in position after raising pf with out a monster so don't get here often.

Mike

[waxhax0rs]

Results?

[ChicagoRy]

I had QQ.

I was two tabling and wasted a few seconds on the river when it was my turn to act in another hand on the other table, but I probably timed to like 8 before I called here.

I felt the call was fairly standard here, as I was pretty sure the turn is a bluff and the river doesn't fill much (there being no gutshots that hit the river was huge in my mind).

FWIW I believe it's a very easy call against this player if we're 15bbs deep and it's probably an easy fold 35ish bbs deep.

Oh, and he flipped over 66 for rivered trips [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

He sat with me a few games later, did not adjust on the reads I mentioned earlier and I took the game down fairly easily.