10/20 - Huge draw deep vs. FTP pro

[JKratzer]

3-bet the flop and failing that check behind the turn.

[ocklind]

Oh, missed you were deep.

So his range C/Ring this flop could be: KQ, QJ, AJ, AT, A9, T9, 98dd, 87dd and like K9dd. Vs this range, if 3-bet here it should be profitable? Vs this range we are 56% and vs the hands he might shove, AT, A9, T9s, 98dd, 87dd and K9dd we are: 48%, so 3-betting is a nice?

[Triumph36]

[ QUOTE ]
after not 3betting the flop i really dont like the turn bet

[/ QUOTE ]

yep. turn bet is terrible - we even picked up more theoretical outs and now we're potentially getting c/red off them

[bigt439]

i would call flop altho i dont hate a 3bet.

i think a turn bet really blows. what are you accomplishing?

[rand]

i 3bet flop, also if i bet turn anywhere near this big i really think you should bluff shove the river (i could see some of the smaller boats folding to be honest) unless you think that draws make up alot of his range and actually think you have SD equity

[stigmata]

FLOP: I think calling the flop check raise is optimal.

In fact, when we get it all in on the flop, we will often be a slight dog. Instead if we call, we have the positional + information advantage on the turn, so please, lets use it to our advantage. OOP is of course a different matter, and it is often best just to stick it in with big draws.

TURN: I would definitely check. There are very little upsides to betting: He now gives up on his bluffs, folds worse draws, but calls or raises with better. Instead, checking may let a worse draw hit, or let you draw out a better hand.

[Requin]

Call flop, why do you guys want to 3bet? Bad if he has a FD, and since we block so many of the draw cards I'd put him on a set or possibly 2 pair alot of the time. I don't even know if he calls A9 or AT PF. I just call the flop and maybe he will check/bet so we can check back/call, or something, I think our Q hi has some value. On the turn for sure check.

Only advantage I can see to 3beting the flop is if he gets here with and CRs bare aces on the flop, I know he's an FTP pro but he doesn't sound like that kind of player.

[BalugaWhale]

i dont like 3betting flop, we dont want to get stuck here and we polarize him pretty hardcore if we do. this is mostly cause of how deep we are.

tbh, if you thik we lets go of the river relatively frequently, i dont mind the size of the turn bet, provided you shove any river. I think checking riv the way you played it is pretty rough, you're never ahead and he folds a fair amount if he's playing well.

i could be way off though.

[xorbie]

Flop 3bet is pretty good because we get it in vs 9x[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or 78[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] pretty often and don't get moved off our hand by air and it's good for image and everything.

[stigmata]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop 3bet is pretty good because we get it in vs 9x[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or 78[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] pretty often and don't get moved off our hand by air and it's good for image and everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

waaaaay less often than we get it in versus 2-pair/set. I seriously think we are a dog to his All-In range.