KQs UTG+2, every street debatable

[reutel]

No they didn't had both crap. One guy had JJ, The other AA. An ace on the river made the decent player wining for the rest of the night.

[Yepitis]

Wow, any jackpot on this?

[icemanjmw]

Wow, trying to hit the backdoor flush here is going to cost you most likely at least 2 bets on the flop and 2 on the turn judging from preflop action. Also you could be (and were) drawing dead here a lot of the time. Youre already dead to AA, JJ, AJ, and if you hit your straight you're still losing to JT.

I don't think the preflop call is horrible really, but judging from the responses of other, more experienced players apparently it is and I'll have to reevaluate myplay of suited broadway in future sessions.

[elindauer]

UTGs bet is to be respected... my range calculator tells me he's flopped an ace or better about half the time, and that's before we know that he bets into a clearly highly protected pot.

That said, if we assume that UTG bets any pair of aces or better, we still have pretty good equity against him, at least, relative to the size of the pot. Pokerstove says we have 12% (7.3:1) against this hand range. Even if we add in a club draw AND give big blind the same range as UTG, we still have 6.3%. Getting 16:1, we could call if we were closing the action.

However, since we're NOT calling, and this is a pretty action-oriented flop, we have to fold. It's way too risk to make a speculative call here with so many players still to act. If we end up putting in 2 bets on this flop, we're losing money.

Preflop, you could fold, though I don't mind your call given your expectation that there will be five players to the flop. Obviously they are calling with lots of garbage, so that mitigates your domination concerns.


On the turn... tough spot. I like your decision to fold when it's 2 cold back to you the 2nd time. When it's 2 cold the first time... yikes. You're getting 7:1 immediately though... I think calling is fine. If UTG really has you drawing dead, it's a bit odd that he didn't 3-bet the flop and has preferred to face the field with 2 cold on the turn. You could be dead to either him or the BB of course though, so 7:1 may not be enough of an overlay. Close decision either way (better to have avoided it by mucking the flop [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]).

good luck.
Eric

[reutel]

I'd like to thank you all for your responses. especially Elindauers was very thorough. I am surprised that so many of you don't like the pf call. I assume you would like it if I were the button and three/four people cold-called before me?

ps: No jackpot

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
the bb threebangs, and everyone calls. The bigblind is a loser. He does not know what is going on in most hands. He is not standard loose-passive though.


[/ QUOTE ]

If he's not LAG, he just 3 bet out of the BB which means his range is very narrow.

b

[icemanjmw]

Even though the raiser has you crushed preflop almost 100% of the time, I still think the preflop call is fine IF IF IF you know/suspect the flop will be 5+ players. The only way you know this is how raises have been handled in the past, have players been willing to coldcall 2 bets with any two? If so go ahead and jump in, the problem is I think you have to be willing to dump this on the flop for all the reasons mentioned above. Cost you 2 big bets, no biggy.