STOP SAYING you are raising or betting for information!

[Ansky]

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<3 but shhhhhhhhhhhhh

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welcome to 2003?

[Eagles]

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Is a continuation bet where you missed the flop (redundant under Harrington's definition, I know) a value bet or a bluff?

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Its a bluff. But the main reason you cbet when you miss the flop is metagame.

[Pudge714]

Paging aejones to explain two way bets to the fish OP.

[Sherman]

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Is a continuation bet where you missed the flop (redundant under Harrington's definition, I know) a value bet or a bluff?

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I actually think a c-bet when you miss is a bet in which you have no idea if it is for value or as a bluff.

You are bluffing if your hand is behind, and you are betting for value (but moreso protecting your hand) if you are ahead.

So most c-bets act as both (and we usually don't know which) IMO. But who cares. They make monies.

[djk123]

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"Raise to find out where you are at"


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some players (even good players) go from "raise to find out where we are at" to pot committed, to being forced to make bad bluff with marginal hand. This is so true when such "raise to find out information" move runs into "bet for value" of a better hand.

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NYwalker, no offense or anything, but based on your posts you are one of the worst when it comes to 'raising for information." The most recent example being the AK hand.

[baltostar]

Value or bluff is too simplistic.

What about pot control bets, sometimes known as blocking bets, especially on the river? How is that either a value bet or a bluff?

[LearnedfromTV]

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I actually think a c-bet when you miss is a bet in which you have no idea if it is for value or as a bluff.

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That's a copout. Your opponent has a preflop calling range, and the flop texture makes him likely to fold a certain piece of that range to the bet, call without another piece, and raise with a third piece.

You decide to cbet based on how your hand compares with those pieces, and for the most part (insofar as any pre-river bet can be classified a value bet or a bluff, rather than varying degrees of semibluff), your cbet isn't a two-way bet. When it's a good bet, it usually is so because it falls into one of three categories

- folding better hands*
- getting called by worse hands
- preventing bluffs (that you can't call) from worse hands.


If it's none of these, it's a bad bet. If you aren't sure which one it is, or which one is dominant, you're being sloppy.

*including situations where most of the bluff value comes from setting up a profitable two barrel rather than getting an immediate fold.

[ZJ123]

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Value or bluff is too simplistic.

What about pot control bets, sometimes known as blocking bets, especially on the river? How is that either a value bet or a bluff?

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blocking bets are value bets

[baltostar]

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Value or bluff is too simplistic.

What about pot control bets, sometimes known as blocking bets, especially on the river? How is that either a value bet or a bluff?

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blocking bets are value bets

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Blocking bets are typically used when you are unsure if you're ahead/behind, but leaning towards behind and want to keep the pot small. How is that a value bet?

[FGators]

I agree with what you are saying but so often I call here with 99 on that 67Q board, the turn is a 3 and I get fired at again from a thinking player. Now I have no idea if he's making a move on me or if he's valuebetting QQ/AQ/KQ/KK/AA.

I agree in general that this is very bad because of the obvious reasons (folding out worse hands and better ones continue thus bloating the pot).

I just feel weak when I fold that to a second barrell and then I get an image of "nitty".