PNL Study Group Day 7: The REM Process "Intro" and "R is for Range"

[corsakh]

Can you please quote them for those of us who don't have the book?

[Jzo19]

i though the preflop standards they gave for tight players in early position was pretty dead on (i think they said PP,AK,AQ,AJskQS)....but thats pretty standard , there rly isnt much in this chapter ..cant wait till (range-equity-maximize discussion ....thats going to be interesting ...

[Shocker101]

Yeah I agree that the range for tight people is right on but the range for others could be about anything that is semi connected. What kind of range can you put on players like that any two.

[Onaflag]

Putting opponents on a range of hands is the most difficult thing for me to do. I don't know where to begin. For the first couple years in minbet poker I got caught up in the popular attempt to put someone on an exact hand. Then the next couple years in SNGs, I'd assign a range based on pretty much nothing in particular that consisted of "top 10%, top 13%, etc".

Does it just take observation over time to develop a feel for what a particular opponent may open with, or call with, or raise with?

To make it more confusing, its mentioned somewhere in the book that if a hand is possible, don't rule it out. Its too early in the morning to go find the book, but it was something like, if 85o makes the nuts and villain is betting strongly, reconsider your assigned range.

Maybe I just need more practice, but I understand I cannot calculate my equity without assinging a range. Then again, maybe its just the nature of the micros that makes this part difficult.

Onaflag.........

[Matt Flynn]

Hand reading is tough because people are fairly random in what they play.

Biggest things are stuff like "he made a big bet on the turn after limping preflop" - usually that means a player has a big draw or a hand > top pair, and mostly a big hand.

[retleftolc]

I think it is very interesting that the basic concepts are seemingly glossed over. Range is SO important.

Why is it that in every article or interview that Aba does he says NL is all about putting an opponent on a range of hands? He then says it’s about the E and M.

I realize that it’s a hard topic to discuss. It takes tons of experience to "know" what ranges to assign to different players. If one wants to become a better player, they must constantly assign ranges- in and out of hands.

Perhaps we could through some HH in here of typical situations and discuss how we arrive at the range for the specific opponent. I would start, but I have no access to PT right now.


Ret

[Jzo19]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it is very interesting that the basic concepts are seemingly glossed over. Range is SO important.

Why is it that in every article or interview that Aba does he says NL is all about putting an opponent on a range of hands? He then says it’s about the E and M.

I realize that it’s a hard topic to discuss. It takes tons of experience to "know" what ranges to assign to different players. If one wants to become a better player, they must constantly assign ranges- in and out of hands.

Perhaps we could through some HH in here of typical situations and discuss how we arrive at the range for the specific opponent. I would start, but I have no access to PT right now.


Ret

[/ QUOTE ]

aba is pretty sick at note-taking , if youve watched his videos on cardrunners , you can see how many notes he takes in a small span of time , in about 20 min (playing HU) , he already has enough notes to tell about a persons playing style/tendencies and makes adjustments accordingly ...

[traz]

What's the EM stand for?

[Onaflag]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the EM stand for?

[/ QUOTE ]

Equity. Maximize.

[Genz]

*grunch*

When it comes to hand reading, most tutorials are like: "you start with a bunch of hands, then you add and subtract from them." So they imply that you really go ahead and be like "55+, AJo+, ATs+, KQ, KJs" etc. etc. I find this pretty hard to do and often even confusing and misleading since I feel like I waste a lot of time on thinking about hands that don't matter, i.e. big broadways that miss.
In one of your examples, you state a range more like "any Ace, any K, any pair, set, draw, air", i.e. in a more general way. So how do you really go about that? How detailed is your thinking about individual holdings? Or do you just think of classes of hands (TP decent kicker, set, air) and try to remember the implications of hand distributions?

This really troubles me, because I find the detailed way ineffective and I can't learn things that I consider sub-optimal. Yet every theory posts repeats it although in praxis most people seem to think differently.