FTP $330 Bubble Play. At the time it seemed like a good idea...

[IWEARGOGGLES]

I kinda think I like a limp.

[Velocity]

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If you're gonna minraise, why not limp? I don't see either SB or BB playing a minraise that differently than a limp.

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bb never folds letting us pick up the blinds if we limp...

goggles/suzzer/other pro-limp people, how often does bb c/f the flop after we limp? also, how often do sb/bb shove over our limp?

basically, can i get an explanation of why you like limping cause it seems like throwing away 500 chips needlessly cause we win without showdown a lot less with a limp than we do with a minraise or shove.

[suzzer99]

Well, in this case if our main goal as stated is to induce SB to shove and BB to call so we can fold, limping saves us 500 chips. IF SB is planning to shove over a minraise I don't think those 500 chips are going to induce him to play a lot different. And IF BB is going to call I don't think those 500 chips are going to matter to him in that decision.

If either BB or SB shoves, but not both, then we call. So the hand plays the same there with a limp or minraise.

If SB just completes, I think it's unlikely he's going to call a BB shove after we call, so not a big concern there. Also we get 250 more chips in the pot.

Soooo - obviously the biggest concern is SB completing and BB checking. Well in this case, 1/3 of the time we're going to flop a pair - and we don't care if there's an ace. And we have overs if one of them does flop a pair and they both check to us - where we are probably shoving most flops I would think. We also have the option of folding if SB and BB both bet.

Yes it would suck if one of them pairs up his trash hand and would have folded pre. But I don't feel like that one possibility is enough to outweigh all the other scenarios.

[Scotty_12]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm probably going to answer my own question here, but I'm going give approximate finish distributions if I win the hand and if I fold.

When I call, I'll say I get 1st 40% of the time, 2nd 45% of the time, and 3rd 15% of the time. Given this distro, my equity when I win the hand is ~$1084.

When I fold it's not looking good if I get ITM. I'd say I get 1st 5% of the time (probably generous), 2nd 20% of the time, and 3rd 75%. Approximate equity when I fold and get ITM is $698.

Also let's say I still get ITM 5% of the time when I fold and the SB wins, with the same finish distro as me getting ITM when the SB folds. Approximate equity when I fold, SB wins is $35 (holla).

.32x1084= $347 calling
.52x698 + .48x35= $379 when I fold

Tell me if I miscalculated anywhere there, I'm pretty tired.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for this post, I enjoyed reading this thread. I know this wasnt the 'point' of your thread per se. But what is your equity if you open shove, sb folds, bb calls? Or open shove, sb calls, bb folds? Etc? Is it better or worse than these situations?

[Gramps]

[ QUOTE ]
Gramps,

In typical fashion you have explained everything without giving an actual answer! What do you do!!!!!11

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That's b/c I dont' know if there is an "answer," it's all so situational dependent, as I'm sure you know...

[alex-star]

I guess that one thing to consider is that normally we'd have like 25 seconds to make a decision like this [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[suzzer99]

Yeah, which is why I'm probably just shoving unless I'm down to one or two tables. But my point is if we're going to put the thought in to get all fancy-pants like OP, I think a limp is worth considering as well.

[futuredoc85]

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Well, in this case if our main goal as stated is to induce SB to shove and BB to call so we can fold,

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i dont think thats the main goal, its just an added benefit of minraising instead of pushin