Calling Heavy action with nut flush draw! NL newbie alert

[Webster]

Tear this apart. I'll explain why and see if I'm even close. Also -at the end I'll explain WHY I'm in Absolute!

NOTE - the ($.$$) seems to be FUBR

Reads

CO 47/18/1.7 78 hands but . . . it's all I need to read this guy

SB 38/8/1.4 horrible after the flop 80 hands

BB 35/4/2.7 50 hands - about all I know on him

Hero 17/9/3 lots of hands


Absolute Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Absolute Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($2.85)
UTG+1 ($7.08)
MP1 ($3.55)
MP2 ($11.85)
MP3 ($3.75)
CO ($5.95)
Hero ($9.25)
SB ($4.73)
BB ($10.05)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $0.2</font>, Hero calls $0.20, SB calls $0.15, BB calls $0.10.

tiny raise by CO and I have K8s - I think it's a good call. BUT IT'S SUITED! LOL Should I have raised??

Flop: ($0.80) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets 4.53 </font>, BB calls $4.53, CO folds, Hero calls $4.53.

OK - here is my thinking - there is 9.86 in the pot, I have a draw to a nut flush and two cards to come. I also think that buy calling BBs raise I will not have to worry about putting more $$ into the pot as he was thinking he would be heads up! So the river would be basically a free card.

I knew the odds were REAL close if I got that free card.

Turn: ($9.86) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $0.9</font>, BB calls $0.90.

Just trying to suck a little more out of him.

River: ($11.66) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3.62 (All-In)</font>, BB folds.

Four on the river made me a little nervous.

Final Pot: $8.04

Of course you know the results but I'm curious about my calling the large flop bets.

Absolute - I had money in there when Neteller blew up - I can not get $$ OUT unless I put $$ IN. So - I either go broke or run the roll up to a point I HAVE to put $$ in.

I have $$ in FT but not enough for NL25.

There - the cover my butt reason for playing AB.

Side note - WOW did I catch hell for that hand!! unrelenting LOL

[toddxlogan]

Call pf is bad against even a maniac, especially because you (self-admittedly) suck after the flop. If you are going to play this, raise it and make yourself the aggressor. Otherwise you can never feel good about a king and playing to hit an 8postflop is damn weak. And flushes dont actually happen, except in this post.

Flop call is really bad IMO. Your K and 8 outs almost assuredly aren't good BB's flat call looks like a club draw as well. You have no reason to think that BB isn't going to put you in on the turn when turn bricks, and then you are probably priced in (?haven't bothered to do the math) to call anyway despite getting terrible odds because you have engaged in a bloated pot with a very speculative hand.

Raise/Fold pre, fold flop. That said, push turn.

...But welcome to the forum [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Nick C]

Preflop: Meh. You're not facing much of a raise and you are on the button, but then again the stack size of every potential player except the BB is smallish -- which I guess has its plus side since aside from your flush potential and the 88x and K8x flop potential, you won't catch many monsters and the short stack sizes will make it easier for you to get to showdown on Kxx.

Meanwhile, I guess you could 3-bet if you want to posture. I also think folding is all right.

Flop: High variance, but I think it's okay since SB called.

Turn: I probably just push here. It'll still be a small bet compared to the pot, and BB has already called one $4.5 bet.

River: Who knows what the hell BB had. 98o, maybe?

[Webster]

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Flop call is really bad IMO

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But I do have the odds if my feeling is correct and BB is just trying to go heads up with SB and does not want to invest any more in the pot. 1.86 to 1 I think.

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you (self-admittedly) suck after the flop.

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I do? Maybe not SUCK - just learning.

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aren't good BB's flat call looks like a club draw as well.

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Exactly and I have him beat.

Not arguing - just trying to understand.

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You have no reason to think that BB isn't going to put you in on the turn when turn bricks,

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Looking at a generic HH true - but after 1 million hands in limit (about) I've learned to go with my gut on certain situations and am normally correct. I'm just hoping my "read" carries through to NL.

So "IF" I am correct that BB ONLY wants to go heads up with SB with his insta-call . . . . .

As far as the pre flop K8s - Phil Gordon does say this is a playable hand on the BB on a loose table.

The one thing I did not take into account are stack sizes but I felt SB was all-in and BB was not going to put more in.

[nightwood]

I don't understand your river reasoning. If the paired board made your nervous, why did you bet the rest ?

[Webster]

Well - it made me nervous but I did not think it was relevant. He is not calling a big bet with a 4.

It was the kind of nervous where the river hits. I say SH!T and push. Another Ace hits and I think about checking.

As for the play - IF BB does push on the turn after I miss then I do NOT have the odds to call him and am screwed.

Again - I was going on a gut/feeling/read on his insta-call of SB. I knew no more $$ was going into that pot from him.

[ROcketRO]

flop call is good imo. you are getting the odds you need here because BB called. if BB would have folded your call would have been bad, but given the circumstances its ok. on the turn you have the NUTS and 12 cards that can pair the board (which is bad for you). so i really don't see why you would bet LESS THAN 1/10 POT. why??? you should be pushing the turn lightning speed.

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Of course you know the results

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do we? i don't...

[nightwood]

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As for the play - IF BB does push on the turn after I miss then I do NOT have the odds to call him and am screwed.



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That would be a sick spot indeed, but I think you have to call nonetheless; you've got 50% of your stack in. Moreover any turn K,T,9,8,5 or 4 give you additional outs.

[Webster]

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so i really don't see why you would bet LESS THAN 1/10 POT.

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Well - going back to my read on the guy I felt he did not want to put ANYTHING into the pot at that point so I figured I'd put in a small bet. My mistake, you are correct.

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but I think you have to call nonetheless;

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In my short lifetime of NL I have been beat by obvious hands when I don't believe a guy has what he is telling me he has (it's limit player syndrum I think).

Smart fold? dumb call? dumb fold? Smart call? In reality I PROBABLY would have called and prayed. If I win it's a smart call, if I lose it's a dumb call (in my mind).

RESULTS - I won and then felt the wrath of BB for a while. Then the CO came to my rescue by telling BB that on TV they play all sorts of garbage and this is the same style of game.

Thanks CO - that really helps LOL