Not raising big aces pf?

[bilbo-san]

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It's more important to find the best way to extract against worse aces then it is to protect against these hands.



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If we were heads up on the flop, I would agree.

On the flop, SB is still to act. You should raise here because if you call, SB would love to draw to a straight.

In general, you should raise because you would not want two players to draw to different two-pair hands.

[Fallen Hero]

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In general, you should raise because you would not want two players to draw to different two-pair hands.

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that's not right, you'd love to see SB call with an ace.

[mjws00]

Problem is we can't make a REAL raise. Hair over min-raise does nothing but commit us. Passive blows, but 4-handed with passives (no read given) leading into us how often are we good? You either have a read and can get it all in, so push already. Or you are shutdown and would like a cheap SD.

I can't see how this little raise does anything. SB checked to us, if he check-raises BB all the more reason to run away. If he is chasing a draw calling PSB... so be it.

I can see stacking off... but 4-way seems -EV. Turn push behind a check just can't be right with this action.

[bilbo-san]

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In general, you should raise because you would not want two players to draw to different two-pair hands.

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that's not right, you'd love to see SB call with an ace.

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If BB has a weak A, and SB has mid-pair different kicker, you want BOTH to be in the pot to see the turn? If SB has 75 do you want him to call?

That's horrible advice, especially if BB would call a raise. Now anywhere from 6 to 11 outs beat you on the turn instead of 3. You don't have a set here, you know. That's about the only hand you would have where you might be interested in keeping both players around.

[bilbo-san]

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Problem is we can't make a REAL raise. Hair over min-raise does nothing but commit us. Passive blows, but 4-handed with passives (no read given) leading into us how often are we good? You either have a read and can get it all in, so push already. Or you are shutdown and would like a cheap SD.

I can't see how this little raise does anything. SB checked to us, if he check-raises BB all the more reason to run away. If he is chasing a draw calling PSB... so be it.

I can see stacking off... but 4-way seems -EV. Turn push behind a check just can't be right with this action.

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This is not 4-way. One player has already folded.

Trying for a "cheap showdown" when the pot is already big is very, very bad strategy.


Saying we "can't make a real raise" is just wrong -- we can push.

Sometimes weaker Aces can fold, true (although I doubt it at this level), but for the upteenth time, the pot is already worth winning right now.

You are ahead of BB almost all of the time here. Sure, sometimes you are beat, and sometimes SB has you both crushed, but the times you are ahead outnumber it.

Lastly, why do you assume the players are all passive? Do you play these limits? My PT buddy list is full of horrible players with post-flop numbers above 2. My default read is not that players are passive, but that they are donks.

[mjws00]

What part of you have a read and can get it all in is hard to understand? I certainly haven't advocated the passive line as being correct. Not really into the e-pissing contests. But Thanks.

I didn't think either of Isura's pot-control lines looked terrible. Still don't see how a small raise is good.

A nice family pot with a healthy preflop raise looks pretty passive to me. I think one of these guys has you beat and prefer to be aggressive enough so that I don't get put in this spot.