This is why I'm for the death penalty.

[mosdef]

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Well as I see capital punishment as a harder/tougher form of punishment than say a prison sentence I dont know how it is possible for me to talk about this issue with you.

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It's certainly harder/tougher, but that's like saying a nuclear bomb is just a "tougher" version of a gun. Well, sure, but that doesn't mean that if I think firearms and automatic weapons are fine that I think nuclear weapons are fine.

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And until someone comes up with a time machine Im pretty sure serving time in prison is also irreversable.

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A life sentence can be reversed. A death sentence cannot. Sure, a life sentence cannot be fully reversed if someone has served some time, but a death sentence cannot be reversed at all. This is really an obvious objective truth, so I don't know why you would want to zone in on this distinction to make your argument.

[Bedreviter]

You said it sent a weird message if we said "listen children, its wrong to kill so sometimes when people do it we kill them".

This is no different than saying "listen children, its wrong to rob people from their freedom so sometimes when people do it we rob them from their freedom".

Whatever reasoning you have for imprisoning people it still is taking away their freedom, no matter how noble your motives for doing so are.

[slickss]

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This is no different than saying "listen children, its wrong to rob people from their freedom so sometimes when people do it we rob them from their freedom".

Whatever reasoning you have for imprisoning people it still is taking away their freedom, no matter how noble your motives for doing so are.

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True, but you have a very strong argument for taking away their freedom: The safety of people/society. However, assuming a 0% probability of the inmate escaping from prison, that argument doesn't hold for death sentences.

[elwoodblues]

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- Since 1973, 124 prisoners have been released in the USA after evidence emerged of their innocence of the crimes for which they were sentenced to death.

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So they weren't actually "wrongfully executed" were they?

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It's ironic that someone could make light of this statistic while at the same time making light of the number of appeals someone on death row gets through the process:
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Regardless of that, he'll get his 15 appeals, he'll cost the state several millions just in court costs, and he'll probably still die in prison before his execution comes up

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So, correct me if I'm wrong but you advocate the death penalty with fewer opportunities to ensure that the innocent aren't killed. Got it.

[Bedreviter]

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A life sentence can be reversed. A death sentence cannot. Sure, a life sentence cannot be fully reversed if someone has served some time, but a death sentence cannot be reversed at all. This is really an obvious objective truth, so I don't know why you would want to zone in on this distinction to make your argument.

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My defense of the capital punishment is made on the basis of a functioning fair legal system being in place, and that those who are given this punishment have committed the crimes under the circumstances that I feel warrants this perticular punishment.

When someone I think have fulfilled everything required for him being executed I dont want or need a reversable solution. Those criminals that I feel are deserving of this penalty I think we are better off without, and dont want them in prison or anywhere else.

And Im staying away from the firearm/nuclear weapon comparison.

[Bedreviter]

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This is no different than saying "listen children, its wrong to rob people from their freedom so sometimes when people do it we rob them from their freedom".

Whatever reasoning you have for imprisoning people it still is taking away their freedom, no matter how noble your motives for doing so are.

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True, but you have a very strong argument for taking away their freedom: The safety of people/society. However, assuming a 0% probability of the inmate escaping from prison, that argument doesn't hold for death sentences.

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Im aware of the differances of being dead and being in prison, I just reacted to what I saw as a weird statement based on weird logic. I fully understand how someone can be in favor of sending people to prison for kidnapping while still being opposed to the death penalty for murder.

[tame_deuces]

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You said it sent a weird message if we said "listen children, its wrong to kill so sometimes when people do it we kill them".

This is no different than saying "listen children, its wrong to rob people from their freedom so sometimes when people do it we rob them from their freedom".

Whatever reasoning you have for imprisoning people it still is taking away their freedom, no matter how noble your motives for doing so are.

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I don't really care for your semantic hogwash about two sentences that look alike. I could explain to kids that the man murdered a man, and therefore he should die - that isn't the point. And yes the sentences look alike but they are not.

Punishment and revenge are two different things, and if you can't see that I have no idea why you are even in this thread.

[slickss]

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When someone I think have fulfilled everything required for him being executed I dont want or need a reversable solution. Those criminals that I feel are deserving of this penalty I think we are better off without, and dont want them in prison or anywhere else.

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I'm going back to the 124 people I mentioned that got sentenced to death, but found innocent and released before the sentence was carried out.

I agree, the fact that they were found innocent prior to getting executed implies that the legal system is working. However, we must admit that errors occur and that there is a good chance that someone innocent has or will be executed for a crime he didn't commit.

That said, why would you not want a reversible punishment? I mean, if a person was found innocent after he was killed, you would want to bring him back to life if it was possible, right?

I am still waiting for some convincing argument for the need to kill people instead of a maximum security prison for life. Unless there is some non-trivial gain in the death penalty, I don't see why we would want to go for the irreversible option.

[Bedreviter]

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You said it sent a weird message if we said "listen children, its wrong to kill so sometimes when people do it we kill them".

This is no different than saying "listen children, its wrong to rob people from their freedom so sometimes when people do it we rob them from their freedom".

Whatever reasoning you have for imprisoning people it still is taking away their freedom, no matter how noble your motives for doing so are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really care for your semantic hogwash about two sentences that look alike. I could explain to kids that the man murdered a man, and therefore he should die - that isn't the point. And yes the sentences look alike but they are not.

Punishment and revenge are two different things, and if you can't see that I have no idea why you are even in this thread.

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The principle is exactly the same, and Im pretty sure you know it too.

And why do you make the assumption that my reasoning for the death penalty is based on revenge, and not punishment? If you read through the thread you will find a post where I point out that I do not think that "but someone might feel that being executed is getting off softly, and life in prison would be far worse" is a good argument, because its not about me wanting the convicted to suffer as much as possible (which would be revenge), its about the solution I feel is best for society.

If I was in favor of revenge as a form of punishment I would also be a proponent of torture and rape of those who have committed those crimes, but I can assure you I am not.

[Bedreviter]

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I agree, the fact that they were found innocent prior to getting executed implies that the legal system is working. However, we must admit that errors occur and that there is a good chance that someone innocent has or will be executed for a crime he didn't commit.

That said, why would you not want a reversible punishment? I mean, if a person was found innocent after he was killed, you would want to bring him back to life if it was possible, right?

I am still waiting for some convincing argument for the need to kill people instead of a maximum security prison for life. Unless there is some non-trivial gain in the death penalty, I don't see why we would want to go for the irreversible option.

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Let me first ask you, is your opposition to the death penalty based on moral (it is wrong to kill anyone, even the worst murderers out there), or is it based on practibility (we risk killing someone who we might later find out is innocent)?