checking and betting in the dark

[creedofhubris]

I was thinking about my experiences at the Bellagio 10-20, and I ran into these scenarios where someone was betting dark or checking dark. I don't have a good framework for these hands.


1) You raise preflop. Only caller is in the blinds and checks dark. You've missed the flop completely.

2) Someone has raised preflop and now bets into you dark.
You've got a piece of the ragged flop, or a good draw.


If you've got good checking dark or betting dark stories, go ahead and tell them, that would be useful too.

[JMP300z]

[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking about my experiences at the Bellagio 10-20, and I ran into these scenarios where someone was betting dark or checking dark. I don't have a good framework for these hands.


1) You raise preflop. Only caller is in the blinds and checks dark. You've missed the flop completely.

2) Someone has raised preflop and now bets into you dark.
You've got a piece of the ragged flop, or a good draw.


If you've got good checking dark or betting dark stories, go ahead and tell them, that would be useful too.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. As soon as they say, "check dark" say "bet dark", You have the best hand/position going in. At the wynn 5/10 a month ago everyone was checkdarking. This is almost 99 percent a Pocket pair. I was bet darking. TWICE people called my flop bet and checked the turn dark again, this is almost always a bad player w/ a weak TP or weak draw to which I bet pot dark again and they folded.

2. Raise? Raise Dark? This has never come up for me.

-JP

[snagglepuss]

i have the same response to "bet in the dark" and "check in the dark":

"pot the dark".

[Thremp]

[ QUOTE ]
i have the same response to "bet in the dark" and "check in the dark":

"pot the dark".

[/ QUOTE ]

[turnipmonster]

if you are facing an autobettor who has position, checking 100% is a pretty good move imo.

[thabadguy]

If called a raise with small pp or sc's oop, dark checking the flop is a good idea.
I dark check the flop a lot outta position.

[4betaboutit]

At the home games I would often raise in the dark preflop without letting anyone know about it. I have never lost a pot in which I have done this. I have gotten people on tilt when I tell them afterwards I played my hand without looking at my cards. Also this has the added effect of people thinking you've raised in the dark when in fact you haven't (this can be accomplished by a quick peek at your cards when you think nobody's looking, also you can lie). In all seriousness though, I believe this is a +EV move if you pick your spots. Against weak players prone to tilt, it works like a charm. If you have too tight of an image, raise in the dark once and people will think you're a maniac. You do it twice and people think you're certifiable. I have yet to try this in a live casino, I will let you know when I do.

[JMP300z]

[ QUOTE ]
If called a raise with small pp or sc's oop, dark checking the flop is a good idea.
I dark check the flop a lot outta position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Saying check dark and having no intention of leading into the pfr are two ENTIRELY different things. If I hear someone check dark I assume they have the two types of hands you listed. You are bleeding info. BTW. If someone autobets flops, do they auto raise often? Then you could do the whole lead w/ a set business.

-JP

[neon]

Hey creed,

My only real memorable experience encountering dark betting was also, perhaps not coincidentally, in the Bellagio 10-20 game. Mike (who may have been the guilty party in your case as well), a middle-aged Russian (?) guy whom I gather is a regular in the game, raised from EP. Mike plays pretty LAG, but reads hands very well. Anyway, I called the raise in position w/ QJs, hu pot, Mike bets the pot in the dark. I wait to see the flop of QJx, w/ two clubs, before pumping it up big on the flop.

Mike mutters something about, "You have QJ? Good, I'll turn a king and bust you," as he tosses in his chips in bunches to call the raise.

Then he checks dark. The turn is the Kc. Oh man. I check behind, Mike grinning at me the whole way. Now, I was playing a pretty solid game that night, and I knew that Mike knew that I was aware he was gonna try to run me over at every possible opportunity.

So now Mike bets $600 in the dark. WTF? $600? The river is a blank. Mike tips the dealer as I ponder a call. I call like a fish, Mike has AcTx . . .

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey creed,

My only real memorable experience encountering dark betting was also, perhaps not coincidentally, in the Bellagio 10-20 game. Mike (who may have been the guilty party in your case as well), a middle-aged Russian (?) guy whom I gather is a regular in the game, raised from EP. Mike plays pretty LAG, but reads hands very well. Anyway, I called the raise in position w/ QJs, hu pot, Mike bets the pot in the dark. I wait to see the flop of QJx, w/ two clubs, before pumping it up big on the flop.

Mike mutters something about, "You have QJ? Good, I'll turn a king and bust you," as he tosses in his chips in bunches to call the raise.

Then he checks dark. The turn is the Kc. Oh man. I check behind, Mike grinning at me the whole way. Now, I was playing a pretty solid game that night, and I knew that Mike knew that I was aware he was gonna try to run me over at every possible opportunity.

So now Mike bets $600 in the dark. WTF? $600? The river is a blank. Mike tips the dealer as I ponder a call. I call like a fish, Mike has AcTx . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, I got into a fun 4-handed game with Israeli Mike; I think that's your guy. He did occasionally toss out a dark bet.

The guy who was doing a lot of dark betting in my game was O'Neil, who shows up as villain in a lot of Ciaffone books.

The most interesting dark bet came on a river where he had a combo draw on the turn; he led out not certain whether or not he would hit! Of coure he did and the dude had to call.