Counting cards in online live Blackjack. Possible?

[Stan Loh]

Hi all,

As you know some online casinos have live blackjack, as in they show the dealer. The cards come out from a multi deck shoe. Is counting cards possible on these games? Haven't heard anyone talk about it yet.

Cheers.

[ARHookEm]

From what I understand, it is never stated how many decks are being played, so for all you know it is 2-5 decks. I have heard that these games are monitored by the online site, and if someone starts doing great they will switch up the amount of decks or the frequency of the shuffle..

Not a huge blackjack player, but I would never put my money on BJ online..

[MicroBob]

That's the problem.
If they catch you sizing your bet at opportune times (necessary for profitable card-counting) they can just decide thgey don't like you for "taking unfair advantage of the game" or something and not give you your money.

In fact, they don't even need to notice it right-away.
Anybdoy who actually wins and then tries to cash-out they can easily review their play and see whether they were counting cards or not.

This isn't as easy to do in the live casino. You can get in and out reasonably inconspicuously if you put any effort at all into it.
And, in most situations, they aren't going to stop you from cashing-out your money.

But on the online-site you have to trust them to pay you.
They are going to view card-counting as cheating.
And they are going to say that it's within their rights to not pay a cheater.


Even if it's only a 2 or 3% chance that they aren't going to pay you I don't think it's worth ticking off an online-site like that.

[Stan Loh]

Yeah ticking off online sites is the last thing I want to do.

[tagtastic]

I can almost guarantee that any site that offers "live blackjack" over the internet is setup so even the best possible counting system would not make a profit. There are many detailed rules to blackjack (on splitting, doubling, etc) that can have a relatively big effect on the overall edge the house has over the player. It's pretty easy to change these rules to make the house edge enough to where no amount of counting can reverse that edge, all the big casinos on the strip do this. Some now use continuous shuffle machines and/or single deck games that pay 6:5 for blackjack - stuff like this makes the games pretty much unbeatable.

Shuffle tracking may still be feasible, but I doubt the video is detailed enough to make this a real possibility.

Also - if it's live blackjack, do they show you everyone else's cards at the table? If not, I find it extremely hard to believe they have a live dealer for each player. I would bet that these systems use pre-recorded video of some kind, and maybe some pre-recorded close-ups of the actual cards or something (which would make this no different from regular online blackjack, continuous shuffle rngs). Otherwise this doesn't make much sense from a financial point of view.

[Wilco666]

[ QUOTE ]
Also - if it's live blackjack, do they show you everyone else's cards at the table? If not, I find it extremely hard to believe they have a live dealer for each player. I would bet that these systems use pre-recorded video of some kind, and maybe some pre-recorded close-ups of the actual cards or something (which would make this no different from regular online blackjack, continuous shuffle rngs). Otherwise this doesn't make much sense from a financial point of view.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, they have real live dealers. You see other players' cards at the table. It is fun, but (of course) super-slow.

[stigmata]

I allways presumed they used a CSF -- pretty sure I have seen them in those pictures on the casino homepage of "our live webcam blackjack" etc.

If they werent using a CSF, I think you could make a profit. Essentially you would use a complex team-based approach (potentially spread across different skins), where it is very difficult to detect becasue no single agent would be changing their betsize in accordance with the count.

[ChipLeeder]

From CassinoWeb Cam FAQ's:

2.7 Fraud
Casinowebcam reserves the right to freeze and forfeit player accounts due to actual or suspected Fraudulent activity;
- Including but not limited to Multiple Registrations and/or Logins via either Casinowebcam or Licensee sites,
- Attempts by the player to circumvent the normal odds of the game played via electronic or other methods,
- and/or employing playing methods, including but not limited to the following; such as observing and/or recording deal outcomes over a period of time via login to Casinowebcam and/or Licensee sites,
- Using a system of progressive betting for example on Roulette over an extended period of play,
- Using Card Counting or other measures as determined solely by Casinowebcam and/or it's authorized agents on Table Games.
- Using any other Fraudulent method(s).
- In such cases ALL such Player Accounts will be subject to seizure by Casinowebcam and Prosecution will be followed to the fullest extent of the Law.

[suzzer99]

[ QUOTE ]

- Using a system of progressive betting for example on Roulette over an extended period of play,


[/ QUOTE ]

What? Martingale?

[stigmata]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

- Using a system of progressive betting for example on Roulette over an extended period of play,


[/ QUOTE ]

What? Martingale?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol good spot. This is pretty outrageous, because a major portion of their profit comes from people who are misguided about betting systems, yet they are still greedy (or stupid) enough to deem it fraudulant.