FT Hand Sanity Check

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
tuba,

i actually think the flop raise is pretty money. it gets the dude to fold air, and since he's never folding a T or a Q or a draw anyway, is cheap for us.

[/ QUOTE ]

The guy is getting 4:1 to call Noah's raise...[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I typed out some other comments but they ended up being really results oriented, so let's just suffice it to say that I'd put at least 8-9k on top rather than the 5400 Noah did. (if I was even going to bluff in the first place)

[/ QUOTE ]

well, exactly. the thing is the odds dont matter because its not like we're trying to protect our hand.

if the guy never folds a ten anyway (and obv never folds a queen), and never folds a draw, whats the point of making a bigger raise?

[Requin]

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold to the flop bet. On a QTx board, he has a pair or draw.

[/ QUOTE ]Plus your raise was tiny.

[NoahSD]

[ QUOTE ]

i actually think the flop raise is pretty money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah.. I liked it too. I think I'd make it 9k here regardless of stacks, but with stacks, I think it's pretty necessary because I want to discourage him from pushing back with a draw.

[ QUOTE ]
it gets the dude to fold air, and since he's never folding a T or a Q or a draw anyway, is cheap for us.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think lots of players, including this one, bet/fold a T here. I don't think this specific guy would've lead a Q, 'cause he knows I'm betting if he checks.

I mean.. I was calling a river bet.

The only reason I considered betting the river was because I think he folds almost 100% of the time, and occasionally he has a T with a flush draw or a flush draw that paired the turn and has me kickered. But, I guess the odds that he played a Q or a set like this are greater than the odds that he has one of those hands.




Edit: This is an FT (I think the first hand, actually)... you can get away with betting a lot less at FTs, especially when you're showing strength against a guy who's showing weakness and stacks are so clearly in play.

[mlagoo]

i wish i could get people to fold middle pair after i raise their donk bets [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[DLizzle]

unless this guy is a pretty big cs, I raise flop pretty much always, and uh let me check stacks and pot, ya I push turn. I don't think giving up on the turn is good. Once you checked turn, you blew any chance of having a line that makes sense for a hand that beats one he might fold, so check behind.

[FGators]

How weak were the blinds? I am going to make a post soon about the impact of limping hands like these with stacks like this on the button in MTTs. People raise, raise, raise the button too much and build big pots without monster stacks (you rarely have huge stacks in non rebuy,deepstack events).

[DLizzle]

oh, and I just read some comments about making the flop bet bigger. I don't think that is necessary. I like your raise, but only as long as you push turn. If he reraises the flop bet, you fold, if he folds, great, if he calls, doesn't bother me because he's check/folding the turn unimproved most of the time, so he just made the pot bigger for me to steal. If he check calls my all in on turn, sick call, he deserves a pat on the back.

The larger flop bet wastes more when he moves in, and it's only advantage is that he may fold a few more hands.

[DLizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
How weak were the blinds? I am going to make a post soon about the impact of limping hands like these with stacks like this on the button in MTTs. People raise, raise, raise the button too much and build big pots without monster stacks (you rarely have huge stacks in non rebuy,deepstack events).

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to read it. I have some immediate thoughts on it, I'll wait for your thread. I can support button limping but don't agree with your post much.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
unless this guy is a pretty big cs, I raise flop pretty much always, and uh let me check stacks and pot, ya I push turn. I don't think giving up on the turn is good. Once you checked turn, you blew any chance of having a line that makes sense for a hand that beats one he might fold, so check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really think this is too aggro. You raise with 76o to steal the blinds. You get called. The flop comes two broadway cards and a 2-flush. You get bet into. What is wrong with folding? I think it is a mistake to try to win the hand every time you try to steal, get called, and miss the flop. I like to play aggro on the bubble too, but there are better ways to do it.

[tubasteve]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
unless this guy is a pretty big cs, I raise flop pretty much always, and uh let me check stacks and pot, ya I push turn. I don't think giving up on the turn is good. Once you checked turn, you blew any chance of having a line that makes sense for a hand that beats one he might fold, so check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really think this is too aggro. You raise with 76o to steal the blinds. You get called. The flop comes two broadway cards and a 2-flush. You get bet into. What is wrong with folding? I think it is a mistake to try to win the hand every time you try to steal, get called, and miss the flop. I like to play aggro on the bubble too, but there are better ways to do it.

[/ QUOTE ]


Noah mentioned to me in passing on AIM that since the final 2 tables, everyone was being an ultra-nit...this is a read/player dependant move that would have quite likely worked if he followed up on the turn. If this seems results oriented, remember that Noah raised the flop after sensing weakness, and at showdown it appears he was right.