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#1
11-19-2007, 04:44 AM
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Re: Inducing a bluff
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Do you give up when you have JTs? [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] -DeathDonkey [/ QUOTE ] I don't know I'm missing some inside joke, [/ QUOTE ] You aren't. DD actually checks here too and was just passing out hearts that day to all his loving friends. (yes, I asked him about this. no, I didnt ask why i didnt get one. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]) [ QUOTE ] but yes I check behind a lot of hands that totally miss here too. [/ QUOTE ] You should fire on this card w/JTs. You are missing pots against folders here. (folders include TAGs) 
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#2
11-19-2007, 05:23 AM
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Re: Inducing a bluff
[ QUOTE ]
You should fire on this card w/JTs. [/ QUOTE ] Sometimes I do. I think the point of the thread is that it seemed to me a paired board like this is a better board to make this play, since a free card to an 8 hurts me a lot less (as he's drawing to 2 outs as opposed to 5), overcards are folding to a bet, and I'm basically WA of most hands and WB the hands that are beating me. I guess it's true that raising the river wouldn't be a good idea, and had the hand transpired in the way I planned who knows if I'd have come to that realization before I put the 16 chips in... but I do think that we shouldn't be auto-betting this A here when we have a chance to make another $80 off a player who's drawing dead or to 2 outs.
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#4
11-18-2007, 11:52 PM
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Re: Inducing a bluff
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Do you give up when you have JTs? [/ QUOTE ] No chance metagame in this spot is as important as the immediate EV. [/ QUOTE ] No chance that there's enough EV to be gained by checking behind in a live game here to make up for the admittedly small gains you have in EV by playing Ax the same as JTs. Rob
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#5
11-19-2007, 06:28 AM
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Re: Inducing a bluff
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Do you give up when you have JTs? [/ QUOTE ] No chance metagame in this spot is as important as the immediate EV. [/ QUOTE ] No chance that there's enough EV to be gained by checking behind in a live game here to make up for the admittedly small gains you have in EV by playing Ax the same as JTs. Rob [/ QUOTE ] FWIW I wasn't arguing that this is a clear check, I was just saying I think we need to worry about the immediate EV rather than the metagame.
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#6
11-19-2007, 01:58 AM
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Re: Inducing a bluff
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Do you give up when you have JTs? [/ QUOTE ] No chance metagame in this spot is as important as the immediate EV. [/ QUOTE ] right, and PJ doesn't put in enough hours for this to matter anyway
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#7
11-19-2007, 02:35 AM
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Re: Inducing a bluff
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Do you give up when you have JTs? [/ QUOTE ] No chance metagame in this spot is as important as the immediate EV. [/ QUOTE ] right, and PJ doesn't put in enough hours for this to matter anyway [/ QUOTE ] Live I think it's pretty easy to get the image quickly of being "that guy" -- the one that raises and raises and raises and bets every scare card. When "that guy" checks behind here on a scare card on this board, it's pretty unrealistic for him to hope to gain 2 extra BB on the river. Just MHO of course but I'm not judging this as they judge it, I'm just trying to balance my play and earn the most when they have weak hands that they'll convince themselves to call down with, and honestly on this board there are more hands that can call a turn bet and fold to a river bet or call both than will bet-call the river. Rob
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#9
11-18-2007, 10:53 PM
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Re: Inducing a bluff
Im betting all my weak hands here so I want to be betting my strong hands too. If I was going to check behind here it would either be with KQ or KK.
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#10
11-18-2007, 10:54 PM
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Re: Inducing a bluff
[ QUOTE ]
Commerce 40/80. Game is playing very very tight and it's not that great, but we're about to break (and unbeknownst to me I'm about to move to an awesome game for the last 2 hours of the night). Folded to me in the CO, I open AQ. SB calls, BB folds. Flop 855. Check, I bet, he calls. Turn A. He checks, I check? (Plan is for him to bet the river and I raise any card that isn't an 8, T, or J.) [/ QUOTE ] If you don't think he has anything, why raise the river? If you think he has a 5, why raise the river? If you think he has an ace, why not bet the turn?
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