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  #1  
Old 11-10-2007, 03:01 PM
Garland Garland is offline
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Default Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

Here’s a situation that occurred in a live no-limit game recently:

The board reads: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Turn 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

There’s some action before the river, but I’m not exactly sure how much. Two players left in the pot: UTG and MP. UTG checked subtlety either by tapping lightly or saying “check” lightly, MP then asked the dealer “he checked?” in such a fashion that the word “checked” was emphasized and heard loudly, but the word “he” was deemphasized and somewhat muffled. I, along with other people around him, could probably testify his words were inquisitive and not intended as action. However, the dealer, whose first language clearly isn’t English, believed MP only said “check” and then repeated “check”. Then UTG upon hearing the dealer quickly flipped up his hand to reveal K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], but MP is now screaming bloody Mary and wants to bet now. Floor is called over. What is your ruling?

Garland
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  #2  
Old 11-10-2007, 03:05 PM
RR RR is offline
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Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

Was UTG in position to hear that it was a question? If not I would say it was a check as he took an action that was interpreted by the dealer as a check. We do have to consider the character of the players involved. That is if UTG is a known angle shooter that would flip over his hand knowing MP hasn't acted yet I might be inclined to let MP bet.
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  #3  
Old 11-10-2007, 03:17 PM
TruFeelings521 TruFeelings521 is offline
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Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

This exact situation happened to me. I opened a pot in early position to like $15 in a 1/2 NLHE game with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and the BB called me. The flop came K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
He checked, I made a bet, he called. Turn came J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] . He checked again, I made a bet, he called again. The river was a Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] . I jump for joy making Kings full of Queens. I am awaiting my turn to take this guy to valuetown and never see him motion. However, everyone starts to look at me and I asked "Did he check?" The villian immediately flips over his K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

The floor got called (this is my first time ever needing to involve a floor) The dealer stated that he heard me mumble something before saying check, however he clearly heard check. I am flipping out because I want to bet my second nuts. After deliberating, the floor stated the villians action of checking would stand and that I could check, bet or fold.

I tossed out a tiny ass bet (smaller than the turn bet)because I figured by the way I acted he knew i had a monster. He insta called and then flipped out that I tried to angle him by saying to the floor "So I gotta show my hand now??" (in a pissed off tone).

The people sitting next to me heard me ask if he checked and agreed that the guy was just trying to angle me to get a cheap showdown. Also why the hell would I not bet Kings full in position. I am no Jennifer Tilly. It didn't work. I love the floor! [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
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  #4  
Old 11-10-2007, 03:22 PM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
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Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

If you aren't sure of the action call "Time" and ask the dealer the question "What and/or where is the action?."

And make it a habit to never say bet or check in a game (they sound alike when it's noisy). Let your chips or clear hand tap do the talking.

~ Rick
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  #5  
Old 11-10-2007, 03:28 PM
redfisher redfisher is offline
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Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

This is a good example of why you should never use check, raise, bet, call, or fold in a sentence unless that's the action you intend to take. Why risk a bad decision when you don't have to?
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  #6  
Old 11-10-2007, 03:31 PM
AngusThermopyle AngusThermopyle is offline
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Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

"Did he check?" [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

"What did he do?" [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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  #7  
Old 11-10-2007, 04:08 PM
TacitMike TacitMike is offline
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Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

[ QUOTE ]
I am flipping out because I want to bet my second nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Third nuts, arguably fourth (depending on how you count).
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2007, 04:29 PM
budblown budblown is offline
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Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am flipping out because I want to bet my second nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Third nuts, arguably fourth (depending on how you count).

[/ QUOTE ]

If you coun't retarded, 2nd. If you coun't stupid, 3rd. If you coun't like the rest of us, 4th.
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2007, 04:36 PM
UbinTook UbinTook is offline
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Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

Its a check.
This happens fairly often and i always remind the players...do not use the word check in any context other than checking, phrase it differently if you are unsure of what is happening.
What happened?
What did he do?
Is it on me?
Who is it on?

THAT said, i see players flip hands before the LTA has acted at all, that player always gets to act as he chooses, and i tell the others that is is best/safest to always wait until i/the dealer ask to see the hands.
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  #10  
Old 11-10-2007, 05:14 PM
Garland Garland is offline
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Default Re: Dealer contributes to confusion... Floor please!

[ QUOTE ]
Was UTG in position to hear that it was a question? If not I would say it was a check as he took an action that was interpreted by the dealer as a check. We do have to consider the character of the players involved. That is if UTG is a known angle shooter that would flip over his hand knowing MP hasn't acted yet I might be inclined to let MP bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

UTG was across the table form MP. Character for both players is neutral.

Garland
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