U.S. businesses accept pesos. Immigration hawks go nuts.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
Nowhere did I claim that illegals are the majority of people using the Mexican pesos. What I am claiming is that having businesses except Mexican pesos as payment makes it easier for people from Mexico that enter the country illegally. I think the reason is obvious but maybe not.

[/ QUOTE ]
According to the OP's article, you can get pesos exchanged at a bank already so whatever effect there is on the ease of getting here is probably negligible. So when republicans whine about things like this, it's difficult to not to ascribe other motives like xenophobia. and more difficult to take the complaints seriously.

And if the 'illegals' aren't a majority of the people using these programs, why the hell do you care? Should 'legal' people not be allowed to do something because it makes things easier for 'illegals'(another dubious assertion; why would people who want to appear legal run around flashing pesos?)?

[GoodCallYouWin]

but... but... they took our jobs!

[John Kilduff]

[ QUOTE ]
Linky

The neo-cons can't stand the fact that illegal immigrants take money and jobs from the US. Now some evil greedy corporations are making it as easy as possible for people to take money out of the Mexican economy and put it into the US economy. Naturally the neo-cons are... even more upset.

THERRR TAKIN ARRR JERRRRRBBBBSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

The peso part of this should be a non-issue, in my opinion. Exchage rates are exchange rates, and banks or businesses will convert currency: no big deal about that.

The Neo-Cons are not against immigration, and apparently, are not even against illegal immigration (witness Bush's recently failed "Read my lips: it's not an Amnesty!" bill). Chertoff, too, has managed to have completed construction of perhaps a dozen miles of the many hundreds of miles of fence he was charged with constructing. The argument of Bush and Chertoff seems to be that illegal immigration can't be ended unless illegal immigration is made legal.

Most of the American public is against illegal immigration, and would also like to see stricter controls on legal immigration- but the Neo-Cons aren't in either camp. Neo-Cons aren't generally known for heeding what the American people want, but are rather known for charging ahead with their own visionary dreams and utopian schemes (a la Iraq, where they are trying to make Middle Eastern Muslims into Demopublicans like themselves). The Neo-Cons generally don't care to hear or heed the voice of the American people, and they don't believe it when Middle Easterners tell them what they want. Neo-Cons just know.

There exist many rational reasons for concern over illegal immigration and for concern over total legal immigration levels, but the fact that many pesos are being accepted and exchanged, isn't among those reasons.

The sooner the Neo-Cons are out of the government, the better, and I don't much care at this point if they are replaced by Democrats or Republicans. In my view, the Neo-Cons have done more to harm America than have multiple administrations, both Republican and Democrat. Some of that harm is already apparent, but much more will manifest given time.

The peso issue is indeed symbolic, but it's such a non-issue, that those who are leery of unbridled immigration would do better to focus on things that actually matter. Making a big issue out of pesos just makes anti-immigration forces look silly, and if they really think that lots of pesos being exchanged is a great negative, then they probably are silly. Bigger negatives, IMO, are increased crime rates, lack of assimilation, and lack of shared cultural values/lack of shared belief in the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights (although tragically, many lawyers and politicians today seem to be guilty of that as well. Americans who fail in that department actually have less excuse than foreigners, who cannot be expected to simply and suddenly believe in things they didn't grow up around).

The future of America is not looking particularly bright to me at this moment. The Neo-Cons have exploded the federal budget, gotten us into grave trouble overseas, allowed terrorists to escape Afghanistan and to roam freely in Pakistan, attempted a monstrously expensive failing experiment in Iraq, greatly increased social spending at home yet produced scant benefit, failed at controlling immigration, have managed to turn much more world opinion against the U.S., and have generally bolloxed up nearly everything that could be bolloxed with one exception: they may have succeeded at having prevented more actual terror attacks on U.S. soil. Due to Neo-Con policy, though, airlines search everyone equally in defiance of common sense. Due to Neo-Con policy, too, our basic rights have been eroded.

Hopefully the next Administration will have more common sense, and more respect for the Constitution, but I won't be holding my breath for either.

Thanks for reading.

[GoodCallYouWin]

The only problem with immigration is the welfare state.

[Brainwalter]

[ QUOTE ]
The only problem with immigration is the welfare state.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. And it's a secondary problem of the welfare state: you have to start greatly limiting the number of immigrants.

[John Kilduff]

[ QUOTE ]
The only problem with immigration is the welfare state.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd agree that that's a lot of it, though I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the "only" problem.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
but... but... they took our jobs!

[/ QUOTE ]

but... but... the US took Mexican territory!

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But uh, taking offense that their currency has value in this country? That's pretty bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

No his point is that the company is facillitating illegal immigration i.e. facillitating people breaking the law.

[/ QUOTE ]

That some of you foaming-at-the-mouth right-wing xenophobes on *this* forum want to try to claim that "facilitation of people breaking the law" is the source of even some of your indignation directed toward illegal immigration is so laughably ironic it doesn't deserve a response. I'm sure there are no less than hundreds of threads at 2p2 that involve "facilitating people breaking the law".

But of course, threads which involve stealing or violation of copyrighted laws, circumventing local gambling prohibitions, celebrating illegal drug use, etc. apparently aren't worthy of our concern or scorn. But laws which stop the brown people from coming need to be treated with the utmost seriousness and deserve serious condemnation if broken. Riiiiiiiight.

Cue the hand-waving whines from those same right-wing xenophobes who claim they aren't racist, and apox on anyone who dares state what's patently obvious. Richard Tanner is exactly right: posts like Steven Bickford's demonstrate it's getting harder and harder for people to hide their xenophobia. Why some of you, on this forum especially, even try with the ridiculous pretense that you just care about the enforcement of the law is beyond my understanding. Of course, it's beyond anyone's understanding. Because it's a load of [censored].

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nowhere did I claim that illegals are the majority of people using the Mexican pesos. What I am claiming is that having businesses except Mexican pesos as payment makes it easier for people from Mexico that enter the country illegally. I think the reason is obvious but maybe not.

[/ QUOTE ]
According to the OP's article, you can get pesos exchanged at a bank already so whatever effect there is on the ease of getting here is probably negligible. So when republicans whine about things like this, it's difficult to not to ascribe other motives like xenophobia. and more difficult to take the complaints seriously.

And if the 'illegals' aren't a majority of the people using these programs, why the hell do you care? Should 'legal' people not be allowed to do something because it makes things easier for 'illegals'(another dubious assertion; why would people who want to appear legal run around flashing pesos?)?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol I love your post here BCPVP, particularly because you keep putting "illegal" in quotes. Anyone who uses the word illegal as a noun should have their intentions questioned, and any use of the word "illegal" as a noun should be put into quotes to demonstrate how such a use is an assault to reason.

The obvious racism and dehumanization involved in this debate should be clear, given the right's Orwellian redefinition of people who cross an imaginary line without documents as somehow being immutably "illegal". The not-too-subtly coded argument here from the right is, of course: don't worry, we can round up these people in trucks/trains and deport them, or put them in camps, or let them die in the desert trying to climb up our 50 foot border wall. Who cares, they're not real people, they're "illegals".

Again, I really like Richard Tanner here: it's as if people who use the word "illegal" as a noun aren't even trying to hide their xenophobia.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
Why some of you, on this forum especially, even try with the ridiculous pretense that you just care about the enforcement of the law is beyond my understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Of course they support the enforcement of laws they like: it's the enforcement of "wrong" laws (i.e. laws they don't like) that they don't object to.