How do I suck at poker? Let me demonstrate.

Grease · #1 10-23-2007, 02:50 PM

10/20 live. Kit's at the table, but he's not in the hand.

I have ATs in EP.

I raise, couple of calls, somewhat LP player 3-bets (AKs-QQ maybe AKo, AQs or JJ, probably not TT.) Blinds call, I call.

Flop T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB leads out, BB folds, my move?

What if I have JJ, QQ, KK, AA (With and without BDFD's).

What about ATo with a BDFD (raising PF is a mistake, but let's not worry about that for now.)

Plan on the turn if he just calls? What if he raises?

Yes, I know there are a lot of generalities here, and I want to make sure I'm pushing people towards the "right" flop play, but I want to see where the correct decision changes as a function of our (perceived) hand strength.

Kit, I believe this is the situation we talked about at dinner, if not, PM me.

threeducks · #2 10-23-2007, 03:57 PM

I raise the flop, but that's me.

KitCloudkicker · #3 10-23-2007, 04:06 PM

grease, the flop was T64, (not T62), if it matters.

Hyperrrprank · #4 10-23-2007, 04:25 PM

Grease,

I don't see a single one of those hands that I'm not raising on the flop. My aggression on the flop is something I've reined in recently in certain situations, but with top pair or an overpair here I don't think you can afford to give your 3-betting friend a chance to see another card without paying a premium.

Maybe A10o can stand to wait for the turn to defend if a safe (none diamond, none overcard) card hits. This is especially valid if you've got the BDFD, since you really want to see a turn card cheaply in that case.

One Outer · #5 10-23-2007, 05:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Grease,

I don't see a single one of those hands that I'm not raising on the flop. My aggression on the flop is something I've reined in recently in certain situations, but with top pair or an overpair here I don't think you can afford to give your 3-betting friend a chance to see another card without paying a premium.

Maybe A10o can stand to wait for the turn to defend if a safe (none diamond, none overcard) card hits. This is especially valid if you've got the BDFD, since you really want to see a turn card cheaply in that case.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too, except I'm still raising the ATo on the flop.

TheCount212 · #6 10-23-2007, 05:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Grease,

I don't see a single one of those hands that I'm not raising on the flop. My aggression on the flop is something I've reined in recently in certain situations, but with top pair or an overpair here I don't think you can afford to give your 3-betting friend a chance to see another card without paying a premium.

Maybe A10o can stand to wait for the turn to defend if a safe (none diamond, none overcard) card hits. This is especially valid if you've got the BDFD, since you really want to see a turn card cheaply in that case.

[/ QUOTE ]

My friend threeducks... immerse yourself in the thinking espoused by Hyper here!

Grease · #7 10-23-2007, 06:16 PM

Flop was T64, not T62. It might matter a little.

mikeca · #8 10-24-2007, 01:49 AM

My play here would be to raise. I like trying to knock out as many of the callers as possible. If the 3 bettors range is really that narrow, then we know what turn or river cards are likely to give him the advantage. If he 3 bets the flop here, he likely has an overpair and we are drawing pretty thin.

If that is totally wrong thinking, then I’m here to learn.

RossSi · #9 10-24-2007, 02:10 AM

Six to the flop for three bets - 18. 21 if you raise the flop. Giving people 10.5-1 means lots can call profitably. However I probably raise anyway, but that might be a leak. SSHE is always talking about making draws unprofitable, but if we call and 3-better raises and all but a couple are still in, then SB might well back off not allowing us to face those left with two cold.

So all thing considered I raise the flop and see if 3-better has overcards or has me beat.

Anyone?

chesspain · #10 10-24-2007, 07:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you can afford to give your 3-betting friend a chance to see another card without paying a premium.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem isn't so much the PF reraiser, but rather the PF coldcallers wedged between OP and the reraiser who apparently are still in the hand (even though these actions PF were not made clear).

Given that there are at least two other players still in the middle, with possibly one or more live overcards between them, a raise is mandatory in order to try to push them out.