TPTK faces a donk and a donkraise on the flop

[nomadtla]

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3bet. If UTG caps, I'd have to at least consider calling and folding the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to make this a play along, not even saying this is what happened (cause it acctually didn't go like this) I'm just trying to pick your brain. Lets say action goes a little something like this.

Nomad 3bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 caps, both call

Turn is T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (pot 9BB)
UTG donks again, UTG+1 raises, Nomad?

[nomadtla]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG's range and action make me suspect an AQ chop here.

[/ QUOTE ]

My most likely gueses for him was AQ, KQ

[ QUOTE ]
You would think if he preflop raises 5% then he would have raised an overpair or QQ.

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I am sure he would have

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 is a mystery though his raise says he beats TP.

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that's what I thought with his AF + the fact he hadn't done anything crazy to get my attention in 100 hands. But it could also be 2 pair with 56 which I have outs against.

[ QUOTE ]

So with the combination of possibly reduced outs, WA/WB/or tied, facing 2 bets not from really aggressive players, I don't think we lose much folding TPTK here. I know. Weak tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it is weak tight. Perhaps not wrong but still weak tight, and have you taken into consideration our BDFD even if we have no other outs.

[BigBadBabar]

standard 3bet on flop

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3bet. If UTG caps, I'd have to at least consider calling and folding the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to make this a play along, not even saying this is what happened (cause it acctually didn't go like this) I'm just trying to pick your brain. Lets say action goes a little something like this.

Nomad 3bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 caps, both call

Turn is T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (pot 9BB)
UTG donks again, UTG+1 raises, Nomad?

[/ QUOTE ]

Auto-call. What else are you going to do?

[Jaran]

I like a 3bet. If UTG caps, then I'm really thinking I'm behind, and start to play accordingly (if I'm behind, I have a lot of possible redraws that make me want to see th river, most likely) . If UTG+1 caps, I'm not sure that I'm behind, and might even think about a turn raise to get it HU. If both call, I'm planning on leading the turn, unless a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] falls, in which case I'm ck'ing behind with the intention of calling 1 bet otr, unless I frush up.

-J

[Bona]

Yes. I did see that but I also considered UTG1's AF and he doesn't seem to raise a lot. I'm not saying folding is the best answer because I don't really know. I am also not sure if I could have folded it under fire. BUT: as befolder said... looking at it in the fullness of time to think. I think a fold is OK here. TPTK is not the nuts.

[Point Blank]

wow - what a spot!!

I think during the actual hand I auto 3bet ... but thinking about it now:

UTG is clearly an idiot ... p
ossible hands: AQ, KQ, AA (would he play lower suited Queens from this position, QJs, QTs ... i don't think that's to likely ... what about flush draws - even if, there aren't too many that this guy plays in ep)

the other guy is a little harder, but doesn't appear to have much aggression
so I'm think two pair or sets (or an overpair again, lol) most likely (almost 40% is a lot of hand ... 65, Q6s, Q5s are all likely ... 55, 66, QQ too)

IMO a 3bet is too aggressive of a move against these two, both playing like this (a 3bet does look informational, and might be worth it though ... especially since both are passive, you might shut them down, and you have a backdoor nut flush draw - I would probably take a free card on the turn if given the chance ... if we get capped by either i would be putting 1 of them 100% on a set, well maybe UTG plays AA like that cause he's really bad)

[nerdking]

3bet flop, CC turn. i sense our friends are on 2pair+. diamond draw is too sweet to pass up, though. if threebet, call, if capped, fold.

[NIX]

I 3-bet this all day. If someone caps, then I start to consider my options.

I think UTG has AQ/KQs a lot, so I don't mind building a pot with him. UTG+1 has me a little more worried, but he isn't that passive. He could have a set/65, but I think a lot of other queens, AQ-QT are in his range as well as possibly some flush or combo draws.

[texnewb]

:newb grunch:

This one really worries me. Specifically, it's UTG who worries me. Seeing as he has an 11% VP$IP I'm extremely worried about a set. Even though he is not positionally aware, what hands might he have here that he would call PF with and bet out here with (assuming his bet represents strength, as per your "he's straightforward post-flop read"? Not AK (that would be in his 5% of PF raise, I assume) [also AdKd impossible given your hand], not 65s/65o, not 87s/87o, not Qx. All that leaves to me are hands like KQ, QJs, maybe QTs, 55 and 66. What worries me even more is that UTG+1 raises, which most of the time means "hey! I've got TP, why are you betting into me?". If I'm right and UTG+1 has a Q that makes it even more likely UTG has 55/66. I hope I'm not being too restrictive in the range I'm giving UTG, but his hand choices are pretty restrictive.
I think you have to fold this.