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#1
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Is there truly such a thing as a selfless act?
Any thoughts?
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#2
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Re: Is there truly such a thing as a selfless act?
YES.
There is a species of beetle that eats it's mother from the inside and explodes out of her when it is born. Evolution is ABSOLUTELY NOT YOUR FRIEND. We are NOT evolved to life happy, healthy lives. We are evolved to reproduce and make sure our children survive. A lot of the time that means living a miserable life because our genes tell us to. The semantical argument of "oh well you wouldn't make that choice if it didn't make you happy" is utter BS. Do you really think that a father diving in front of a bus receives a "happiness" reward for diving in front of a bus to save his child? Obviously not. Furthermore, he does NOT believe that he will receive a happiness reward either. |
#3
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Re: Is there truly such a thing as a selfless act?
what if he's diving in front of the bus for religious reasons? What about acts of love?
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#4
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Re: Is there truly such a thing as a selfless act?
Depends on how big of a nit you are. If the act has to be for someone else and the person doing it has to not only not get anything material from the act but must in fact feel crappy about it, not just ambivalent, but crappy, then probably not.
A better question is how good does someone have to feel before letting them do something for you becomes creepy. |
#5
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Re: Is there truly such a thing as a selfless act?
My whole question is this: If there is no such thing as a selfless act, and every rational act we make must have some utility, then are we all just Machiavellian when it comes to friends and loved ones? that is, do we do things for people only to benefit ourselves or to make a deposit that we plan on withdrawing later with interest? Does a rational person live by making a cost=benefit analysis of how greedy, selfish, and manipulative he can be without losing friends and the optimal selfish effeciency? And if that's the case, then isn't what we call sociopathic behavior optimal? Thanks for any insight.
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#6
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Re: Is there truly such a thing as a selfless act?
[ QUOTE ]
My whole question is this: If there is no such thing as a selfless act, and every rational act we make must have some utility, then are we all just Machiavellian when it comes to friends and loved ones? that is, do we do things for people only to benefit ourselves or to make a deposit that we plan on withdrawing later with interest? Does a rational person live by making a cost=benefit analysis of how greedy, selfish, and manipulative he can be without losing friends and the optimal selfish effeciency? And if that's the case, then isn't what we call sociopathic behavior optimal? Thanks for any insight. [/ QUOTE ] |
#7
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Re: Is there truly such a thing as a selfless act?
I think you'd have to argue "someone else's child" for that one to stick among the skeptics here.
And even then the Sklansky-like cynics would continue to assume the premise that he got some utility from it. The foundation of a rational mind, according to them, is maximizing utility Which means that rational, non crazy people can't be selfless, because how can you be selfless if you're maximizing your own utility? It's a stupid discussion. |
#8
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Re: Is there truly such a thing as a selfless act?
Well ,that's what I'm asking. If it is not possible to make a rational decision without utility, then that's really disturbing. But I want to figure it out, regardless. Would a selfless act of love then be called an act of utility because it makes you feel good? What if it doesn't make you feel good? What if you're in love with someone who doesn't love you back and totally takes advantage of you for their own good, but you continue to do anything for that person? Where's the utility in that? Or would that make you insane?
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#9
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Re: Is there truly such a thing as a selfless act?
I believe people can and do make selfless decisions all the time, but if you analyze everything from the point of a rational/logical mind, as Sklansky does, then such a thing isn't possible.
Selfless decisions to me are where you put aside your wants for the benefit of others. This can be as simple as being polite to someone you dislike, even though you'd rather make him feel like crap and would suffer no consequences if you did so. Or getting your girlfriend off even though you'd rather just fall asleep. Understanding and considering the feelings of others, and making a conscious choice to act differently for their benefit, even though it causes you distress, discomfort, cognitive dissonance, or annoyance, is a purely selfless act IMO. |
#10
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Re: Is there truly such a thing as a selfless act?
[ QUOTE ]
I believe people can and do make selfless decisions all the time, but if you analyze everything from the point of a rational/logical mind, as Sklansky does, then such a thing isn't possible. Selfless decisions to me are where you put aside your wants for the benefit of others. This can be as simple as being polite to someone you dislike, even though you'd rather make him feel like crap and would suffer no consequences if you did so. Or getting your girlfriend off even though you'd rather just fall asleep. Understanding and considering the feelings of others, and making a conscious choice to act differently for their benefit, even though it causes you distress, discomfort, cognitive dissonance, or annoyance, is a purely selfless act IMO. [/ QUOTE ] Main point: This topic sucks. We are trying to show that best != best. Side point: But WHY do you DO it, then? |
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