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#1
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #3 River
several people have made similar arguments:
- he played the rest of the hand like a donkey. - only a donkey would check a made flush on the river. - so we should bet the river. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] i think there are also stupidly played made hands that are checking out of an odd fear of a flush. e.g., 68, 99, q9, qq, etc. i may miss some value when i have the opportunity to check behind on a scary river, but i'm checking here. |
#2
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #3 River
[ QUOTE ]
- he played the rest of the hand like a donkey. - only a donkey would check a made flush on the river. - so we should bet the river. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think many donkeys check a flush here. |
#3
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #3 River
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think many donkeys check a flush here. [/ QUOTE ] I have seen donkeys go check call on the most powerful draws and when they hit, they check again hoping to trap or something. Trust me, he is more than capable of having a made flush here. Yes, betting 600 will get a call from flushes, and possibly a checkraise (assuming he is really that good of a player to move us off of bottom two or he really does have the nuts), but betting 600 also assures a call from a wide range of one pair hands and one pair + missed draw hands that might think something is suspicious and call. Furthermore we could possibly move villain off of a better hand by making this "value bet". |
#4
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #3 River
The villian's check here isn't a made flush in my opinion.
I think the villian has given up on his hand and would have bet out with a made flush or straight. He can't be looking to c/r a flush. I think made hands are betting here 100% of the time. We can safely bet 1/3-1/2 pot and either get called by A9x or AQx or pick up the hand uncontested. I think a c/r is unlikely but I'm calling based on my previous statement that made hands are betting out. |
#5
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #3 River
1) What do you think the villain has?
Wow, another interesting dilemma. Well, I think Villian has middle cards. Something along the lines of pair + draw (draw that didn't get there). There's a slight possibility Villian has the made straight or the flush now, but his line has been quite peculiar for this type of hand. 2) Do you check or bet (and if so, how much)? If you bet anything less than all-in, what's your plan if check-raised? Obviously explain your reasoning for your action. Villian called our pre-flop raise out of position. The flop didn't appear to help our hand, from Villians perspective. He check min-raised us. He might have had a piece of the flop and thought we whiffed, but was worried we might be on an overpair that currently had his pair + draw beat, so he didn't want to be too large and commit too many chips. If he's a donk, he was hoping we'd give the pot to him right there. If he's a thinking player, it might have been a move to gain info, or perhaps to build a pot and/or tick us off and cause us to push against his made hand. The turn he checks, and it's provided him no apparent help. We bet a significant portion of the pot, and he just calls? The river now brings some of Villians potential draws to the forefront. He may have made his straight or his flush. But once again, he's checked. Possibly because we've continued being the agressor in this hand and shown that we like our hand. He may be figuring that we're going to fire another bullet into his strong hand on the river. He sure has committed a lot of chips already though. He may be a donk/calling station, and just not know correct strategy. His play seems to indicate that, or some kind of monster hand. He may have made his flush or straight, but fear we've got the A/K of [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and have him beat. Whatever the case, I really don't care what he might have at this point. While I might be able to accumulate more chips from him here, the possibility of being check-raised and having to dump our hand and not see his just isn't worth it. There's 1800 chips in the pot, he's checked and it makes perfect sense to check-behind and see what the results are. |
#6
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #3 River
Villain's line makes no sense for a flush draw the small raise, call on the turn without proper odds, and now check on the river when the draw got there. Villain's line makes no sense for two pair, set, flopped straight, or over pair either because you'd think they would have bet or check-raised the turn. Villain really looks like a donkey that is calling down with TT/JJ/A9/AQ/KQ type hands. So you value bet the river about 900 and call a push.
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#7
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #3 River
I'm with GrandGNU on this; I think he's putting Strassa on overcards. He sees the flop bet as a straightforward CB on a missed flop, whereas he actually caught a bit of it; I'm thinking suited connectors 78 thru to JQ. The turn check means he either hit or, more likely, he's worried Strassa hit. The call tends to confirm this, I think he'd raise if he had the Q (and wouldn't have CRed the flop) - I believe he wants a cheap showdown.
If he hit his flush wouldn't he value bet it? Strassa hasn't played as if he's on that draw. I value bet 600 and hope he feels he has to call with Ah9nh/87/98/9T. |
#8
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #3 River
It is rare for opponents to attempt the check-raise on the river with a flush in online no-limit tournaments, so there are many hands that would pay off. I think a bet of 750 is optimal to get the max out of a 9 which is villain's most likely hand.
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#9
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #3 River
[ QUOTE ]
It is rare for opponents to attempt the check-raise on the river with a flush in online no-limit tournaments, so there are many hands that would pay off. I think a bet of 750 is optimal to get the max out of a 9 which is villain's most likely hand. [/ QUOTE ] You don't think anyone would check a flush with 2h when there are 4 hearts on the board? |
#10
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #3 River
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It is rare for opponents to attempt the check-raise on the river with a flush in online no-limit tournaments, so there are many hands that would pay off. I think a bet of 750 is optimal to get the max out of a 9 which is villain's most likely hand. [/ QUOTE ] You don't think anyone would check a flush with 2h when there are 4 hearts on the board? [/ QUOTE ] There are 3 hearts on this board, if there were 4 I'd push because there's a good chance I can get a better hand to fold. |
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