Professional No-Limit Hold 'em Volume 1 Review Thread

[jeffnc]

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The strategy in the book is planning your hands around commitment. Volume 2 is going to be planning your hands around thievery. The latter is more successful in my game, because there aren't many players committing to pots with weak hands.

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Your statement is still nonsensical. The book doesn't say to commit, or that your opponents will be committing with weak hands, so you can't say the "strategy" is not optimal. "Planning your hands around commitment" does not mean you commit or that your opponents to commit. In fact, plenty of time is spent discussing bet sizing to avoid commitment. Have you read the book?

[1p0kerboy]

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[ QUOTE ]
The strategy in the book is planning your hands around commitment. Volume 2 is going to be planning your hands around thievery. The latter is more successful in my game, because there aren't many players committing to pots with weak hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your statement is still nonsensical. The book doesn't say to commit, or that your opponents will be committing with weak hands, so you can't say the "strategy" is not optimal. "Planning your hands around commitment" does not mean you commit or that your opponents to commit. In fact, plenty of time is spent discussing bet sizing to avoid commitment. Have you read the book?

[/ QUOTE ]

Without wasting too much more of my time...

The book certainly suggests certain and specific strategies throughout it.

One example is an entire section on targeting specific SPR by taking oftentimes peculiar preflop betting lines so that commitment decisions are easy postflop.

However, if your game revolves around stealing, you oftentimes want awkward SPRs for top-pair type hands. In which case most of that section won't apply to your overall game plan.

That's just one example of several. I'm actually a little bit dumbfounded that you don't think the book discusses strategies and that some of these strategies might not be optimal in certain games or situations.

I'll give another example. The footnote on page 226 says:

You might fold, but against these "average" players your hand is too good to fold. You might raise if you felt you could make more money by stealing than by playing for a target SPR.

Sounds like strategy to me.

[Alpha 5.20]

Do we know when the 2nd volume is to be published?

[1p0kerboy]

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Do we know when the 2nd volume is to be published?

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Me thinks February 2008.

[Matt Flynn]

Has to be later than that since publication is a 4-month process and we may not be first in queue on submission.

[1p0kerboy]

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Has to be later than that since publication is a 4-month process and we may not be first in queue on submission.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the status?

[jeffnc]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The strategy in the book is planning your hands around commitment. Volume 2 is going to be planning your hands around thievery. The latter is more successful in my game, because there aren't many players committing to pots with weak hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your statement is still nonsensical. The book doesn't say to commit, or that your opponents will be committing with weak hands, so you can't say the "strategy" is not optimal. "Planning your hands around commitment" does not mean you commit or that your opponents to commit. In fact, plenty of time is spent discussing bet sizing to avoid commitment. Have you read the book?

[/ QUOTE ]

Without wasting too much more of my time...

The book certainly suggests certain and specific strategies throughout it.

One example is an entire section on targeting specific SPR by taking oftentimes peculiar preflop betting lines so that commitment decisions are easy postflop.

However, if your game revolves around stealing, you oftentimes want awkward SPRs for top-pair type hands. In which case most of that section won't apply to your overall game plan.

That's just one example of several. I'm actually a little bit dumbfounded that you don't think the book discusses strategies and that some of these strategies might not be optimal in certain games or situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly the book outlines strategies and clearly some of the strategies are good in certain games and not others (you are backpedaling now.) But it is "strategy" in the sense that it explains SPR as a way to achieve what you want to achieve. To say "committing with top pair doesn't work in my games" is completely missing the point. There is no one strategy in the book. As I said, it's like pot odds. You use it to guide your decisions. It is not a strategy per se. You should use SPR to your advantage no matter what your game. The same SPR will mean 2 completely different things in different games and different situations. That is not the point. The point is to understand the principles. The principles apply to all poker games. It's up to you to decide if and SPR of 7 is good in your current situation or not. The book gives you advice on how to do that. But it's not irrelevant to any game. If SPR of 7 is to be avoided, then avoid it. If it's to be desired, then obtain it. The book shows you how to try. There are no guarantees because your opponents might actually be playing good poker.

[amulet]

there is no question that stack to pot ratio is important. however, it is one of MANY things that are very important during the play of a hand.

the book spends way to much time focusing on SPR.

i suggest that players use the concept, but not reley on it nearly as much as this book recommends.

[binions]

[ QUOTE ]
there is no question that stack to pot ratio is important. however, it is one of MANY things that are very important during the play of a hand.

the book spends way to much time focusing on SPR.

i suggest that players use the concept, but not reley on it nearly as much as this book recommends.

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Amulet:

Assume you have JTs or A5s. Everyone has 500 in a 5-5 NL game. You are in middle position. UTG limps. UTG+1 limps. You decide to limp.

The player behind you makes it 30 to go. The button calls. The BB calls. The 2 early limpers call. There is 160 in the pot, and it is 25 to call. A call by you closes the action.

What do you do?

[1p0kerboy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there is no question that stack to pot ratio is important. however, it is one of MANY things that are very important during the play of a hand.

the book spends way to much time focusing on SPR.

i suggest that players use the concept, but not reley on it nearly as much as this book recommends.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amulet:

Assume you have JTs or A5s. Everyone has 500 in a 5-5 NL game. You are in middle position. UTG limps. UTG+1 limps. You decide to limp.

The player behind you makes it 30 to go. The button calls. The BB calls. The 2 early limpers call. There is 160 in the pot, and it is 25 to call. A call by you closes the action.

What do you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

So you type in an example of a hand where pot/implied odds dominate the problem to prove what?

Amulet is saying that besides odds, be it pot odds, implied odds, or stack to pot ratios (which is really nothing but a combined version of the previous 2), that there are other important factors in each poker problem.

Some of these include position, hand reading, initiative, yada-yada.

With all due respect to the authors, they do have a chapter on adjusting your target SPRs to these other factors; which is kind of the same concept as 'discounting outs' if you will. But I think they could have spent more time discussing these areas and their effects than they did.