Should I even bother with middle pairs?

[TheSalche]

I'm taking a look at some PT stats for 5.6K hands of stud, ~4K from 1/2 and the rest are 2/4, and under categories of starting hands, the only category of hands where I'm losing is middle pairs, wired and split (this doesn't include low pairs). I have middle pairs defined as pairs from JJ - 77.

I'm wondering if at this level, is it worth playing these hands still, based on the idea of implied action when I have a big pair in hole as opposed to something like 8K8 (vs. KK8). Or do you think that winning at this limit doesn't require you to mix up your play like this?

[BTirish]

Well, it doesn't follow from "you've been losing money playing hands of class X" that "you should never play hands of class X." You could probably improve the way that you're playing them. Even in the relatively tight structure of 1/2 and 2/4 games, the middle pairs can show a profit, given how bad the competition is.

[Brad1970]

IMO, playing middle pairs are like juggling hand grenades. Its not a question of if they go off, but when. In other words, play them carefully.

I will either pump it or dump it. In an unraised pot with the other 8's live, pump it. With a raise from a bigger door card, dump it (most of the time!!!)

Very situational hand.

[MrBlueNose]

Post a bunch of middle pair hands. Like uh...hands like 887, 878, 8K8, 969. It doesnt have to be your biggest winners or losers, just pick maybe 20 at random, format them properly and do "Hand #1" etc before each one, then post them.

I find middle pairs can be difficult to play to begin with, however you will get them often, and you have to learn how to play them well to really increase your winrate.

[lstream]

It is difficult to come up with a pat answer on this one. The kinds of considerations that I use to decide are:

1. Is there a live backup draw? - Connectors or two flush?
2. Position
3. Relative rank vs other door cards
4. How live are the other doors?
5. Read on the players who are yet to act
6. My table image at the time

So net net - sometimes I play them, sometimes I don't.

[MRBAA]

split or hidden?

raised or unraised pot?

how likely are others to pay off if I hit?

how likely is a raise behind me?

how live are the trips cards and any other related cards (if I have a two flush, two str8 or overcard kicker)

Plus all lstreams, and his conclusion -- sometimes mid pairs are playable, sometimes not.

[Poker CPA]

Winning at this level is strictly player dependent, not whether you mix it up. Why you are losing on these types of hands is weak hand reading abilities. Generally these are "knock-out" type of hands and these games are simply not this type, no matter how hard you try. What you should be looking for is a "pretty Kicker". But the direct answer to your question is right in front of you, your PT stats. Replay each hand carefully and ask yourself "Why did I do That". If you have no answer, then you have solved problem #1 and that is you have not clearly identified the parameters needed to play each particular game. I like to refer to it as the "box". All good stud players can select from many "boxes", which one they jump into at the start of a game is generally player dependent. In other words they know how each hand is played before its dealt to them, including middle pairs. Replay the hands carefully and start establishing your own game plan. There are no easy answers at your level but review PT and ask "Why"