out of position -- take these guys to valuetown?

[BigBadBabar]

my image is tag fwiw.
villain is 42/0 after 50 hands, likes to donk flops and call down. bet river?

1/2 limited hold them
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">hero raises</font>, 2 folds, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5.5SB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">hero bets</font>, CO calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3.75BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">hero bets</font>, CO calls.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5.75BB, 2 players)
hero?

c/c, b/c, b/f ?



limited hold them 1/2
9 players
Converter

villain is 63/13/2 over 40 hands, a bit spazzy.

Pre-flop: (9 players) hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
7 folds, <font color="#cc0000">hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4SB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5BB, 2 players)
hero?
c/c, b/c, b/f ?

[terencetsao]

first hand:.. given your description villan seems to be a loose passive player. So i bet fold

second hand:..check fold

[Christian_Peters]

#1: what is villains total aggro.? If it's pretty low, I think I'm b/f. The problem with this hand is that if he is an observant player, he's probably had a chance to see you fold to a raise on the river and this is a pretty scary board for a holding like yours. I know c/c isn't often good, but I expect this river to get raised so often and the pot is too small to call a raise against most villains. A b/f costs you as much as a c/c and I expect a lot of otherwise passive villains to semi-bluff raise the river here. I know that c/c isn't good very often, but that's what I'd recommend here.

Hand #2: I fold this preflop against this sort of player. You're never taking his blind and it could get expensive.

[bung]

hand 1 - b/f

hand 2 - c/c to induce, showdown against a spazz, and save a bet if we're behind

[bung]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #2: I fold this preflop against this sort of player. You're never taking his blind and it could get expensive.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think OP's range is WAY ahead of villain's here...

[BigBadBabar]

guys, make sure you take into account:

a) it's a blind battle
b) i has a pair
c) he is not good

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #2: I fold this preflop against this sort of player. You're never taking his blind and it could get expensive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding is awful at a 1/2 structure. You're folding the best hand a very large percent of the time and you're giving up on a hand that will be a 3:1 favorite on somewhere around 60% of the time.

I think folding is also bad a 1/3 structure, but not as bad depending on the rake structure.

[Christian_Peters]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand #2: I fold this preflop against this sort of player. You're never taking his blind and it could get expensive.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think OP's range is WAY ahead of villain's here...

[/ QUOTE ]

How can 55 ever be WAY ahead? Most random hands have 2 cards above 5, therefore hero is about a coinflip with most random hands. I don't play this against this villain. He's the sort that will defend his blinds always, and then you're always in a tough spot like this one unless you flop a set. He is capable of bluff raising in a blind battle - are you going to call in a small pot with like 3rd or 4th pair? He's probably also value raising your ass with a pair of nines or better. I don't like these spots.

To OP, I think your best play is to c/c. If he didn't hit, he will like always bet when checked to. Yeah, he could have you beat, but b/f against this guy sucks.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
How can 55 ever be WAY ahead? Most random hands have 2 cards above 5, therefore hero is about a coinflip with most random hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

CP - Sorry to say this, but you're being stupid. Do the math before you make false claims.

Total # of hands: 1326

# hands Hero is behind: 54 (4%) --&gt; Hero has the best hand 96% of the time

# hands Hero is in a slightly favorable coin-flip with: 576 (43%) --&gt; Most random hands do *NOT* have two cards higher than 5

[ QUOTE ]
I don't play this against this villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if you're ahead 96% of the time, you would fold getting 3:1 to at least complete?

[ QUOTE ]
He's the sort that will defend his blinds always, and then you're always in a tough spot like this one unless you flop a set. He is capable of bluff raising in a blind battle

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a lot of bold claims based on this little bit of given information:

[ QUOTE ]
villain is 63/13/2 over 40 hands, a bit spazzy.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
- are you going to call in a small pot with like 3rd or 4th pair? He's probably also value raising your ass with a pair of nines or better. I don't like these spots.

[/ QUOTE ]

I might call down, I might not. A true read would be far more useful than just these stats. With no read at all, I'd auto-raise and then play postflop straight-forward (bet flop, bet turn, check-call/check-fold river depending on the board -- fold anywhere to a raise).

[ QUOTE ]
To OP, I think your best play is to c/c. If he didn't hit, he will like always bet when checked to. Yeah, he could have you beat, but b/f against this guy sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you're putting a lot of bold claims to a set of stats. There's something to be said about reading too much into just a little information.

[bung]

[ QUOTE ]
Total # of hands: 1326

# hands Hero is behind: 54 (4%) --&gt; Hero has the best hand 96% of the time.......

[/ QUOTE ]

Aaron, what's the process you used to exactly figure this out? NH sir.