|
|
#91
11-20-2007, 07:50 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Joe Horn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I can confirm that you are liable in civil and probably criminal court for setting a trap that results in death. I'm curious why Alex thinks otherwise. I would think everyone could agree is that lethal force is only justified to protect your life. An intruder killed by a trap usually doesn't qualify because the owner is usually well away. [/ QUOTE ] Are there any cases where the people who'd set the traps also put up signs announcing the danger that awaited the robbers? Would this make a difference in the eyes of the court if there was a clear warning to criminals that they would be shot upon entering? [/ QUOTE ] From the few law classes I've had till now, I highly doubt it would matter whether there was a sign. 
|
|
#92
11-20-2007, 08:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Joe Horn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I can confirm that you are liable in civil and probably criminal court for setting a trap that results in death. I'm curious why Alex thinks otherwise. I would think everyone could agree is that lethal force is only justified to protect your life. An intruder killed by a trap usually doesn't qualify because the owner is usually well away. [/ QUOTE ] Are there any cases where the people who'd set the traps also put up signs announcing the danger that awaited the robbers? Would this make a difference in the eyes of the court if there was a clear warning to criminals that they would be shot upon entering? [/ QUOTE ] From the few law classes I've had till now, I highly doubt it would matter whether there was a sign. [/ QUOTE ] No, it wouldn't matter, because you cannot legally shoot someone for entering your home until you've established they mean to do your serious bodily harm or kill you. Along the same lines, businesses can post all the signs they want that say "No Firearms Allowed" but if you have a CCW permit, and the particular area is one in which you're allowed to carry a weapon, you cannot be arrested for carrying a weapon on that property.
|
|
#93
11-20-2007, 09:42 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Joe Horn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I can confirm that you are liable in civil and probably criminal court for setting a trap that results in death. I'm curious why Alex thinks otherwise. I would think everyone could agree is that lethal force is only justified to protect your life. An intruder killed by a trap usually doesn't qualify because the owner is usually well away. [/ QUOTE ] Are there any cases where the people who'd set the traps also put up signs announcing the danger that awaited the robbers? Would this make a difference in the eyes of the court if there was a clear warning to criminals that they would be shot upon entering? [/ QUOTE ] From the few law classes I've had till now, I highly doubt it would matter whether there was a sign. [/ QUOTE ] No, it wouldn't matter, because you cannot legally shoot someone for entering your home until you've established they mean to do your serious bodily harm or kill you. Along the same lines, businesses can post all the signs they want that say "No Firearms Allowed" but if you have a CCW permit, and the particular area is one in which you're allowed to carry a weapon, you cannot be arrested for carrying a weapon on that property. [/ QUOTE ] Both of those things are completely absurd.
|
|
#94
11-20-2007, 10:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Joe Horn?
[ QUOTE ]
Along the same lines, businesses can post all the signs they want that say "No Firearms Allowed" but if you have a CCW permit, and the particular area is one in which you're allowed to carry a weapon, you cannot be arrested for carrying a weapon on that property. [/ QUOTE ] You could be arrested for trespassing if the store asks you to leave because you brought a gun in and you refuse to do so...
|
|
#95
11-20-2007, 10:08 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Joe Horn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No, it wouldn't matter, because you cannot legally shoot someone for entering your home until you've established they mean to do your serious bodily harm or kill you. Along the same lines, businesses can post all the signs they want that say "No Firearms Allowed" but if you have a CCW permit, and the particular area is one in which you're allowed to carry a weapon, you cannot be arrested for carrying a weapon on that property. [/ QUOTE ] Both of those things are completely absurd. [/ QUOTE ] Why?
|
|
#96
11-20-2007, 10:12 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Joe Horn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] No, it wouldn't matter, because you cannot legally shoot someone for entering your home until you've established they mean to do your serious bodily harm or kill you. Along the same lines, businesses can post all the signs they want that say "No Firearms Allowed" but if you have a CCW permit, and the particular area is one in which you're allowed to carry a weapon, you cannot be arrested for carrying a weapon on that property. [/ QUOTE ] Both of those things are completely absurd. [/ QUOTE ] Why? [/ QUOTE ] 1. By the time you've established for certain that someone intends to harm you, it's often too late to do anything about it. 2. People should obviously be able to not allow people to come on their private property with guns if they want. I dunno why you'd even ask about this one.
|
|
#97
11-20-2007, 10:30 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Joe Horn?
[ QUOTE ]
1. By the time you've established for certain that someone intends to harm you, it's often too late to do anything about it. [/ QUOTE ] I think what he meant is that you have to have some reasonable suspicion that they mean you harm. One guy running away with your big screen probably isn't going to do you much harm. Now if he comes at you or reaches in his pocket for a weapon, it's pretty clear that he probably means you harm. [ QUOTE ] 2. People should obviously be able to not allow people to come on their private property with guns if they want. I dunno why you'd even ask about this one. [/ QUOTE ] You must have read his response a little too fast. You can tell people who bring weapons in to GTFO and if they refuse, it's trespassing, which you can be arrested for. They just won't charge you with carrying a concealed weapon (assuming you have a permit).
|
|
#98
11-20-2007, 10:41 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Joe Horn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 2. People should obviously be able to not allow people to come on their private property with guns if they want. I dunno why you'd even ask about this one. [/ QUOTE ] You must have read his response a little too fast. You can tell people who bring weapons in to GTFO and if they refuse, it's trespassing, which you can be arrested for. They just won't charge you with carrying a concealed weapon (assuming you have a permit). [/ QUOTE ] If they have a sign posted, it's trespassing in the first place. Now admittedly someone shouldn't be arrested for making a simple mistake, but the impression I got was that they could violate the rule with impunity. *shrug*
|
|
#99
11-20-2007, 11:05 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Joe Horn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Along the same lines, businesses can post all the signs they want that say "No Firearms Allowed" but if you have a CCW permit, and the particular area is one in which you're allowed to carry a weapon, you cannot be arrested for carrying a weapon on that property. [/ QUOTE ] You could be arrested for trespassing if the store asks you to leave because you brought a gun in and you refuse to do so... [/ QUOTE ] Right, but that would not be a firearms charge, only a criminal trespass.
|
|
#100
11-20-2007, 11:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Joe Horn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 2. People should obviously be able to not allow people to come on their private property with guns if they want. I dunno why you'd even ask about this one. [/ QUOTE ] You must have read his response a little too fast. You can tell people who bring weapons in to GTFO and if they refuse, it's trespassing, which you can be arrested for. They just won't charge you with carrying a concealed weapon (assuming you have a permit). [/ QUOTE ] If they have a sign posted, it's trespassing in the first place. Now admittedly someone shouldn't be arrested for making a simple mistake, but the impression I got was that they could violate the rule with impunity. *shrug* [/ QUOTE ] The problem with your idea is that it's a slippery slope argument. I don't allow people to smoke in my home. You don't (theoretically, I don't know your real preference) want people armed in your business or residence. Both of these things are rules that the two of us have set forth for our individual private property. If law enforcement officers are expected to enforce your house rules, should they be forced to enforce mine (no smoking)?
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
