Can i get some insight 10nl

[Keitan]

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Flop is easy c/f

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Who else thinks leading this flop is bad? I think it's fine - just as good, maybe even better than a check, though slightly higher variance play. Hero has a chance to take down the pot on the flop. If he gets action he has outs and can call if he's getting the odds and fold if he's not.

[Gospy]

Yea, by raising you thin the field, increase your equity and trap dead money. Are you saying you wouldn't raise TT here? I realize you are OOP but the only goal with a hand like 55 is to hit a set. People are far more likely to go broke in a raised pot then an unraised pot. I generally raise every unopened pot with pps from any position. I am not advocating playing a big pot, I'm just advocating building a pot to hit your set. Flop is an easy c/f, I concede that.

Ok, better question, do you call a raise here of 4x BB with 55?

[Gospy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop is easy c/f

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Who else thinks leading this flop is bad? I think it's fine - just as good, maybe even better than a check, though slightly higher variance play. Hero has a chance to take down the pot on the flop. If he gets action he has outs and can call if he's getting the odds and fold if he's not.

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I personally am playing 55 to hit a set, if an 9 comes, you're in bad shape. If a 5 comes, you're not in great shape either. It becomes a question of how many clean outs do you have, and can you get 4 others to fold.

[kroeliewoelie]

In think you cannot say in general whether the preflop raise is bad. In my opinion there are a few reasons to raise:

1) You eliminate opponents and may be able to take down the pot with a cbet.
2) You build a pot in case you hit your set. If you have already made a lot of cbets, then cbetting when you hit is not suspicious. You also do not want streets checked when you flop your monster, because this changes the size of the pot by an order of magnitude!
3) If your opponents are calling station preflop and weak tight post flop, you can take the pot a large amount of the time without hitting. And because of your raise, you take down a larger pot.

There are also reasons not to raise:
1) If your opponents are calling stations that will call with any piece of the board regardless of the texture of the board, then you will probably be able to get in when you hit anyway by overbetting somewhat, so you do not need to put money in the pot when still drawing.
2) If you have a lot of limp-reraise types at your table then checking is fine.

Anyway, the flop in this hand is extremely bad for your hand. You have flopped an idiot end OESD where you use only one hole card. It is unlikely that this is the best straight draw out. There is also a flusdraw out there. And fives will give other people straights, so hitting a set isn't gonna help you either. So you would need a runner runner full house to win. But in this case somebody will probably throw a large bet in on the turn and then you do not get the odds to call anyway. Combining all this makes this a clear c/f IMO.

[Keitan]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, the flop in this hand is extremely bad for your hand. You have flopped an idiot end OESD where you use only one hole card. It is unlikely that this is the best straight draw out. There is also a flusdraw out there. And fives will give other people straights, so hitting a set isn't gonna help you either.

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UTG limp/raised preflop I think it's unlikely he hit a straight draw on this board. Maybe Button did, but he has a very wide range with his limp/call PF so I'm not crazy scared about him having a higher OESD.

But you're right about the flush draw. So combined the possibility of a higher straight draw and FD, and stack sizes makes me not want to play a pot here with the Button.

But I am willing to gamble that our draw is clean against UTG's shoving range (assuming we lead the flop). I think there's also a fair chance UTG shoves some weird hand we have already beat given his stack.

So if Hero leads the flop, no matter how UTG responds, if Button calls or raises we are done with the hand unless we manage to hit the turn/river. But, if UTG gets involved, and Button folds, I don't mind getting all-in with him.

Obviously it would be ideal if both villains fold to Hero's lead which makes up most of the profitability of the lead.

I don't think anyone has agreed with me that leading the flop is good here - could def be wrong iuno.

[Yort Mada]

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Yea, by raising you thin the field, increase your equity and trap dead money. Are you saying you wouldn't raise TT here? I realize you are OOP but the only goal with a hand like 55 is to hit a set. People are far more likely to go broke in a raised pot then an unraised pot. I generally raise every unopened pot with pps from any position. I am not advocating playing a big pot, I'm just advocating building a pot to hit your set. Flop is an easy c/f, I concede that.

Ok, better question, do you call a raise here of 4x BB with 55?

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TT is a way different than 55, and no, i wouldnt call unless everyone came with the raiser.

[Waingro]

I like a raise pf, both in general and in this spot particulary since both op and button is quite deep. And everyone has full stacks. It can be difficult to get 180 bb in in a limped pot. Lots of additional good things can happen if we raise, like everybody folds pf, we get it hu and can take it down on the flop with a cb.

On the flop we obv has odds to get it in vs UTGs range. I like a check and see what happens, if UTG bets and button folds I crai. If there is a bet and a raise we instamuck. I don´t like a lead.

[Nemesis69]

We are out of position (!) and if we not hit our set we will face a difficult situation. We're almost flipping coins with ATC.

[DaycareInferno]

i don't think pf is really a big deal either way. its kind of dumb to debate something like that so much when postflop is such a trainwreck.

[BoerfSt]

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Please explain to me why he shouldn't be raising pf. If I get 5's in the BB and 3 limp in front as long as they have full stacks I'm raising every time. I want to build a pot to hit my set and trap dead money or narrow the field so I can cbet comfortably. Flop is easy c/f, but I mean I raise that pf every time.

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I do the same. If you know how to play the flop in these kind of pots I think this is a good play.But playing the flop if there are some callers is pretty hard..