KK on its merry way......but where to.....

HoldenFoldem · #1 06-04-2007, 09:21 PM

I have been running hot, at 19/9/3 . I just looked up villains stats at 7/2/1 after 22 hands total. I don't think i had his stats yet when i played this hand, as he had just sat down.

Anyway, any thoughts on as played may be helpful. Fire away.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($90.60)
BB ($45.55)
Hero ($299)
MP ($100)
CO ($106.85)
Button ($47.15)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($9) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, SB raises to $15, Hero calls $10.

Turn: ($39) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets $25, Hero raises to $50, SB calls $90.10 (All-In), Hero calls $21.60.

River: ($225.70) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $225.70

cbloom · #2 06-04-2007, 09:27 PM

Shove the turn LDO

4_2_it · #3 06-04-2007, 09:29 PM

If you are just calling his flop 3-bet it should be to shove a safe turn.

silenced · #4 06-04-2007, 09:30 PM

just a question - why are u pulling out a donk minraise? plz just shove

HoldenFoldem · #5 06-04-2007, 09:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shove the turn LDO

[/ QUOTE ]

You and the next two posters unanamously agree that its a shove. Whats LDO??

I figured it would definitely all be in by the time we finished the river, and the small amount left behind on the turn gets such great pot odds to call that only a fool would not call. This does not conform with the thinking above. I'd appreciate your thoughts on why it should go in asap on flop or turn. Would a push not scare some hands away , whereas smaller bet sizes are harder to get away fromand in the end its all in the middle anyway??? thoughts???

darker_days · #6 06-04-2007, 09:41 PM

your min raise gives him odds if he's drawing to a flush. just stick it all in, if hes calling the minraise hes calling another $21

silenced · #7 06-04-2007, 09:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Shove the turn LDO

[/ QUOTE ]

You and the next two posters unanamously agree that its a shove. Whats LDO??

I figured it would definitely all be in by the time we finished the river, and the small amount left behind on the turn gets such great pot odds to call that only a fool would not call. This does not conform with the thinking above. I'd appreciate your thoughts on why it should go in asap on flop or turn. Would a push not scare some hands away , whereas smaller bet sizes are harder to get away fromand in the end its all in the middle anyway??? thoughts???

[/ QUOTE ]

he would simply just call ur minraise with a draw and muck river when he missed - a busted draw doesnt care how little is left on the river....he missed his draw. Stick it all in and charge him all his money for drawing

Fistdantilus · #8 06-04-2007, 09:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]

You and the next two posters unanamously agree that its a shove. Whats LDO??

I figured it would definitely all be in by the time we finished the river, and the small amount left behind on the turn gets such great pot odds to call that only a fool would not call. This does not conform with the thinking above. I'd appreciate your thoughts on why it should go in asap on flop or turn. Would a push not scare some hands away , whereas smaller bet sizes are harder to get away fromand in the end its all in the middle anyway??? thoughts???

[/ QUOTE ]

LDO = like duh, obviously.

There's no reason NOT to get it in on the turn. If he's calling the river he's calling the turn. If he puts you that hard on AK (or TT/88 or something if he's holding QQ, whatever), make him go with it. Chances are he will. All this crap about charging draws is pretty much nonsense: if he's drawing on a paired flop with anything less than AKs, you'll likely get his money anyway he's so bad. (And even then, AKs here = 'meh').

The push reduces your chances to F up both on this hand and later. Since this is likely a WA/WB situation with a reverse implied hand, you'd rather get the money in before more cards come (but also with your opponent having just enough to make a call with a worse hand). Sure he may put in more money now with a hand like A7, but fold to a push, but every card that comes out weakens your hand against his range. Can you really fold if A/7/9 hit on the river and he shoves? It's a hard spot, and better to just avoid it by making an arguably equal play anyway (Shove the turn).

Until know this villain, all talk of folding goes out the window. Sucks if he shows you 77 or whatever.

HoldenFoldem · #9 06-04-2007, 10:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Shove the turn LDO

[/ QUOTE ]

You and the next two posters unanamously agree that its a shove. Whats LDO??

I figured it would definitely all be in by the time we finished the river, and the small amount left behind on the turn gets such great pot odds to call that only a fool would not call. This does not conform with the thinking above. I'd appreciate your thoughts on why it should go in asap on flop or turn. Would a push not scare some hands away , whereas smaller bet sizes are harder to get away fromand in the end its all in the middle anyway??? thoughts???

[/ QUOTE ]

he would simply just call ur minraise with a draw and muck river when he missed - a busted draw doesnt care how little is left on the river....he missed his draw. Stick it all in and charge him all his money for drawing

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you . very good point.

HoldenFoldem · #10 06-04-2007, 10:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You and the next two posters unanamously agree that its a shove. Whats LDO??

I figured it would definitely all be in by the time we finished the river, and the small amount left behind on the turn gets such great pot odds to call that only a fool would not call. This does not conform with the thinking above. I'd appreciate your thoughts on why it should go in asap on flop or turn. Would a push not scare some hands away , whereas smaller bet sizes are harder to get away fromand in the end its all in the middle anyway??? thoughts???

[/ QUOTE ]

LDO = like duh, obviously.

There's no reason NOT to get it in on the turn. If he's calling the river he's calling the turn. If he puts you that hard on AK (or TT/88 or something if he's holding QQ, whatever), make him go with it. Chances are he will. All this crap about charging draws is pretty much nonsense: if he's drawing on a paired flop with anything less than AKs, you'll likely get his money anyway he's so bad. (And even then, AKs here = 'meh').

The push reduces your chances to F up both on this hand and later. Since this is likely a WA/WB situation with a reverse implied hand, you'd rather get the money in before more cards come (but also with your opponent having just enough to make a call with a worse hand). Sure he may put in more money now with a hand like A7, but fold to a push, but every card that comes out weakens your hand against his range. Can you really fold if A/7/9 hit on the river and he shoves? It's a hard spot, and better to just avoid it by making an arguably equal play anyway (Shove the turn).

Until know this villain, all talk of folding goes out the window. Sucks if he shows you 77 or whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

i really like the thought about reducing further cards from hittting the board. How many times does a hand like this get conterfeited on the river....let me count the ways.....#%$@**&^%$#...so yeah, i see your point, and will push the turn in future. ty