Winning in Tough Hold 'em Games

[Guy McSucker]

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Well, maybe the excerpt was just poorly selected. There is not much groundbreaking to write about the bet-bet-line after all.


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Check out the small-stakes shorthanded forum. There are plenty there who don't use this line. This is therefore a worthwhile chapter.

Guy.

[Newtown]

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Mason or anyone else that might know,

I'm just wondering if the ship/release date for Amazon.ca is the same as it's American counterpart? I e-mailed them but they told me they had no idea since the supplier could be different. Anyways, hoping someone can shed some light on this issue, thanks.

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[Chairman Wood]

Is it at all possible to get this book delivered to a house in NY or just be available for purchase on March 30th or 31st? I live out of the US and I'm having a visitor who is coming on the 31st and I'd really like it if she could bring it to me. I know the release date is the 1st but is there anyway around this?

[***]

Has Smyth or case binding ever been considered? I know it is more expensive, but you can bind a softcover book in a manner similar to a hardcover so that it will lay flat and be very durable. Maybe this just brings up the same problems as doing an actual hardcover, but I think it would solve a lot of the complaints with two plus two's binding.

[thebruce]

Hardback is not that important. Sewn-in-signatures with non-tear covers would be ideal.

[Adman]

This thread is just so stupid I can't believe I wasted my time reading it all. I am no 2+2 groupie but their books are the best in the field bar none. I truly don't believe that for the average player (that is anyone who is not incredibly gifted with a super analytical mind, amazing math skills and great card sense), it is possible to become an expert in the game of hold 'em without reading the material on this subject published by 2+2. Some of these books have literally single handedly introduced ideas and concepts that have (or had at the time) never appeared in print before. I mean we are talking REVOLUTIONARY ideas here! Who gives a f*%@ what kind of binding they have? SSHE alone has paid for itself hundreds and hundreds of times over for me! I could not care less what type of glue is in the spine or how thick the paper is or whether the suits of the cards are in red and black or anything else. We really must be running out of things to talk about here.

One other thing, I always have to laugh when I read an excerpt from an advanced hold 'em text and people make comments like; "Gee what's so special about that?" or "That's nothing revolutionary is that it?" and so on. You have 5 options in this game: Check, bet, raise, call or fold. What are these people expecting to read? The differences in the way a given hand can be played from a beginner to an advanced player are VERY subtle differences. A beginner might just call in a situation where an advanced player would raise. Understanding the conceptual ideas behind a given play and why that particular hand should be played the way it was is what separates experts from fish. You just aren't going to discover some "sixth option" that you have never seen or heard of before! However, you may very well learn how to think about a given situation in a different way (albeit subtly different of course- remember you only have 5 options) than you did previously and over thousands of hands, this could drastically effect your bottom line which is what it's all about right?

That's why I hate it when I hear stupid statements like, "Small stakes hold 'em is no use anymore because you don't have games where 7 people limp pre-flop." Anyone trying to play by wrote is totally missing the point. What, because you don't have a whole table full of loose passive players limping in for one bet you are in the dark now because SSHE didn't explain word for word what to do if the game gets a little more aggressive? It's the concepts and way of thinking about the game that have to be absorbed and are what allow you to adapt, not being able to recite the starting hand chart from any given text verbatim! The starting hand charts are like training wheels as the book itself says. It's the conceptual ideas that matter.

I can't put into words precisely the point I am trying to make here but I think some of you will know what I mean. A book that says "In this situation do this, in that situation do that....." and so on could never be totally complete, there are too many possible scenarios to cover every single one. What you need (and what you get from 2+2 books) is "In these types of situations, here are the things you need to consider in weighing up your next move." At least thats how I see it.

[El_Hombre_Grande]

I can't believe the overall lack of intelligent discussion in this thread. Cover Art and Binding appear to be the most two important issues with respect to the quality of a poker book. LOL at that poster that suggested he doesn't buy 2+2 books because of quality issues. There is no question --none-- that they are THE publishing house for poker knowledge. It's like suggesting that the Yankees suck at baseball. But reading this thread, it appears that if they publishing a very slick covered book with an outstanding binding full of donkey drivel it'd be their #1 selling book.

[seemorenuts]

I find that the old-fashioned paper book cover works fine to preserve the covers.

If the binding wears out, use the previously mentioned solution with the loose pages.

BTW, is the paper acid free?

Funny thing about poker theory, it evolves so that the paper outlasts the ideas at least for some parts.

You can always scan a photo of the cover if your own covers are shredded.

Re highlighters, I remember a lady whom I dated who would highlight practically every word in her textbooks--I suggested that she simply buy yellow hued sunglasses... lol

Only my SoP and PE2 are starting to fall apart...

The other ones with failing covers are due to overuse by friends... or the high weight or bulk to cover thickness-quality ratio.

Can't you just get thicker or better cover paper? or has that been covered in another thread?

P.S. Adman is right...

[elffaw]

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Some of these books have literally single handedly introduced ideas

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lol

[Shandrax]

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One other thing, I always have to laugh when I read an excerpt from an advanced hold 'em text and people make comments like; "Gee what's so special about that?" or "That's nothing revolutionary is that it?" and so on.

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You are missing the point. The situation was described as something like you were betting all the way and then you get raised. If it is a loose player and there are many draws out there, chances are your hand is good and if it is a tight passive player raising you, it's time to fold. I don't recall the complete passage, but it was about as trivial as that.

Now if you don't know such basic stuff already, what the hell are you doing in a "tough" game? You should be sitting at playmoney tables instead.

That's why I was disappointed with the excerpt. Maybe it's my own fault, because I hope that every new poker book turns out to be similar to Nesmith Ankeny's brilliant work on 5 card draw. So far nothing was even remotely close to that.