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#1
06-28-2006, 07:20 PM
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5/10 river bluff raise
Hi all, this hand took place against a pretty well known 5/10 and 10/20 regular but I'm not sure if he'd appreciate me naming him. At the time I thought it was a good bluff because I've been playing very tight on the turn and river and rarely making moves on the turn let alone the river.
Only problem is that representing the FH is not going to happen because I don't think anyone would slowplay a set that hard on that board. On the river when he continues betting, it really looks like he's actually the one who hit the flush. My only hope is to make him think I have a higher flush which is likely but very hard for him to fold. Plus a lot of the time I would raise a FD in position against this guy. Its either that or he is on complete air. Additionally, a fold on the turn would be best because I doubt I have implied odds. So all comments welcome, I am always looking for ways to improve. Party Poker No Limit Holdem Ring game Blinds: $5/$10 6 players Converter Stack sizes: UTG: $970 UTG+1: $1000 CO: $1060 Hero: $2845.25 SB: $2165.75 BB: $1318 Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $40</font>, SB calls, BB folds. Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($90, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">SB bets $57</font>, Hero calls. Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($204, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">SB bets $145</font>, Hero calls. River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($494, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">SB bets $399</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1000</font> 
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#3
06-28-2006, 09:35 PM
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Re: 5/10 river bluff raise
Smackin,
Looks like a standard play pre flop. The only problem I potentially see that could get you in trouble is drawing to a str8 with a potential flush draw out there. Asking to get hurt especially when you put your money in to draw and the river comes an 8 or K of spades. Now what???? However, I don’t see that you mentioned anything about his style of play, his perceived table image, the cards he WAS showing down, how many pots he had be in, what type of hands he's likely to come in out of the blinds to a button raise with, etc. What about the same for you? I really think with out any of that info it really makes it hard for someone to give you a descent answer. Couple questions outside of that though: Does he usually bet out into you if you raise on the button? That seems like a strange play to me. Either he is weak or he put you on a bigger hand and bet into you with two pair or a set. But I can’t say for sure since you would have needed to provide the aforementioned information. Is he likely to just bet a naked flush draw into you? If not then you can narrow his hands down a little more say maybe something like As3s, J9, Q10 etc or air. If you don’t think he would play A3 there then push it aside but don’t discount it. Then the only real thing that would make sense would maybe second pair or even a weaker Q or a bluff. Now what about his turn bet what can that signify with your call on the flop. If he puts you on a weak Q then its a good bet (with or with out the A) that should push you off your hand if you have a Q or a 9, since chances are good you don’t have AQ or A9 since you didn’t re-raise on the flop but that does not necessarily mean that you don’t have AQ or A9 but we'll come back to this one in a moment. If he is not likely to bet a naked flush or something like As3s into you on the flop then chances are good that the A didn’t help him here and he knows that it probably didn’t help you either but he cant know for sure until you act. Then you act and just call. Right there I've now got a pretty good idea that you don’t have AQ. So that narrows your hands down to either a straight or a flush draw since you should have folded the Q unless you had KsQs but then like you say you tend to re-raise in position with a flush draw. However is it always the NUTS? He probably thinks that the flush draw might be a stretch depending on how likely you are to draw to an inferior flush since right there would have been a good semi bluff opportunity to re-raise with top pair and a flush draw. Plus now he knows that you can’t be sure that he doesn’t have the As but there may be a good chance that you do. So that would lead him to believe most likely a straight draw or long shot flush draw. So right there would be a great opportunity to re-raise with your straight draw it lets you represent so many of the hands: AQ, A9,AsXs or even a set. If he puts you on the flush draw and you always or mostly re-raise with the nut draw then he knows the A probably helped you and that you now have top pair with the nut draw. The beauty of this move is that it allows you to pick up the pot in four ways three of which are on the end even if he does call with the A. 1) If you make you hand by hitting an 8 or a Q 2) When a spade hits the river or 3) When he checks to you on the end and you appear to be value betting your hand. This should work enough times even if you do get re-raised off your hand occassionally to be profitable. If he re-raises then depending on how much and the likely hood of your outs now being outs you can play accordingly. Now then the board pairs possible full house out there. If he thinks that you are trying to represent the full house here and goes back through the betting it wont make sense unless you are a very, very tricky player and he is a super aggressive player. (See my point about needing more info) Then it is likely to make sense. This would have been a perfect place to slow play a set if you could be pretty sure he wasn’t on a draw. Then the river re-raise has him tied up and he probably pays you off since he can’t figure it out. I think that is essentially what happened here on the end with your river re-raise value bet. The re-raise river bluff looks suspicious to me because what could you be betting here that you wouldn’t have bet the turn with. You more than likely should have bet the nut draw when you paired your A on the turn. A question he should have asked himself was how likely is he to be re-raise value bet an inferior flush when I am fairly certain that he doesn’t have the As? And outside of knowing you and looking at betting patterns that’s not likely and the same goes for the full house (unless as stated above, he thinks you are a very tricky player and you know he is capable of understanding those types of moves). Then it does seem feasible but more than likely he’ll be so confused that he’ll just pay you off anyway. I think that by re-raising the turn it would have allowed you the best opportunity to win this hand with the greatest chance of success. How did it play out? I'd probably call here with the 9 but can't say for certain since I don’t know what type of player you are. Hope this helped. Good luck!
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#4
06-28-2006, 09:54 PM
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Re: 5/10 river bluff raise
[ QUOTE ]
Now then the board pairs possible full house out there. If he thinks that you are trying to represent the full house here and goes back through the betting it wont make sense unless you are a very, very tricky player and he is a super aggressive player. (See my point about needing more info) Then it is likely to make sense. This would have been a perfect place to slow play a set if you could be pretty sure he wasn’t on a draw. Then the river re-raise has him tied up and he probably pays you off since he can’t figure it out. I think that is essentially what happened here on the end with your river re-raise value bet. The re-raise river bluff looks suspicious to me because what could you be betting here that you wouldn’t have bet the turn with. You more than likely should have bet the nut draw when you paired your A on the turn. A question he should have asked himself was how likely is he to be re-raise value bet an inferior flush when I am fairly certain that he doesn’t have the As? And outside of knowing you and looking at betting patterns that’s not likely and the same goes for the full house (unless as stated above, he thinks you are a very tricky player and you know he is capable of understanding those types of moves). Then it does seem feasible but more than likely he’ll be so confused that he’ll just pay you off anyway. [/ QUOTE ] I think you are dead on with those 2 paragraphs. Luckily for me he folded but looking back, I think it was a terrible move and I agree with you.
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#5
06-28-2006, 10:24 PM
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Re: 5/10 river bluff raise
Well aggressive play just bad timing but hey it worked and even better you learned something form the hand. I hate loosing but I dont mind it as much as long as I learn something that can more than make up for that loss.
Take care!
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