5/10 bottom set on flush board turn minraise then push

[SmackinYaUp]

Ok, so I'm new to 5/10 and play on the conservative side. I have been raising and reraising pretty light preflop but postflop I've basically been super tag. Thing is I only have 21 hands against the guy so I don't think my image mattered much. Before this hand I haven't even been in a pot against him. I just call the turn minraise and am lost on the river. I might have called, might have pussed out...How should I have played this hand? I had a really hard time putting him on any specific hand. He's been 38/15 over those 21 hands for what thats worth


Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
4 players

Stack sizes:
Hero: $2105.75
Button: $894
SB: $1003.75
BB: $1601.72

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is UTG with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $40</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($90, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $75</font>, SB calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($240, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $200</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $400</font>, Hero calls.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($1040, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB raises all-in $488.75</font>

[king_of_drafts]

Bet 90 on the flop, and bet the pot on the turn. On the river I disgustedly fold, I think. AxKd seems like wishful thinking.

[Daliman]

I don't really see why this is even a question. He wants your $$ in the pot, so fold.

[SmackinYaUp]

Well I did fold on the river, but it felt like I should have played it differently than putting in half a stack and then just folding.

[Requin]

You only put that much of your stack in because he gave you big odds to draw, and you missed. Looks fine to me.

I have trouble folding in these spots when we're not deep. Is that bad?

[TalentedTom]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really see why this is even a question. He wants your $$ in the pot, so fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

[psyduck]

sex fold, turn is good

[Joker757]

This scenario presents some interesting situations.

First off your raise UTG is a bit marginal even 4 handed with out any pertenant information about the folks at the table. But non the less.
Your comment about image not mattering even though you have only played 21 hands with the player is a bit irrational. While it is very unlikely that he will be able to get a significant read on you if he is observant enough he will be able to quickly pick up certain betting patterns whether your involved with him or someone else. So I think that you need to pay closer attention and pick up betting patterns as quickly as possible if you are going to continue to play online against random people.

Ok now the hand: I can not say for certain what the exact play or plays should have been since none of the necessary information pertaining to you or your opponent was mentioned. Ex. how many hands has he been in, is he limping a lot, raising a lot, reraising, does he back down if he is reraised with out a hand. This is all information that would have helped you during the course of this hand and the same for you.

Since there was no information given I will comment based on my instincts regarding this hand and I would suggest that you take it with a grain of salt just as you should any other comments and try and reason through based on the different comments. Since a true picture of what you could or should have done can not be assertained with out being seated at that table.

There was $55 in the pot when it got around to the small blind and he had $5 already in vested in the hand so it only cost him $35 more to see a flop. He essentially has to put $35 in to win $55. Those are not very good odds for calling with junk out of the small blind. The first thing you should have asked your self was what type of player is he and what type of hands is he willing to play out of position with out very good odds. ( goes back to knowing your opponent) For the most part folks will play Ax(suited or not), mid to small pairs and hands like KJ KQ K10 etc suited or not.

The flop unfortunately brought joy and a little anxiety. I like your bet here with the bottom set. You have to figure that you are either going to win a little bit or go broke on this hand given the texture of the flop. Most people will slow play this to their death and wonder why on the river their opponent hit the diamond for the win. Anyway, I like your bet on the flop. However I feel that you should have bet enough to deny any sufficient pot odds for your opponent to draw to a flush if in fact he did. I think a bet of approx $100 would have been a little better. If your opponent felt that he couldnt get anymore out of you if another diamond fell then this was a terrible call on his part even with the nut draw. He'll only hit 36% or so of the time and he's not even getting 2 to 1 on his money to see one card but he is little better than 3 to 1 to hit if he is able to see both cards.

The play on the flop was a bit curious as well. With the texture of the flop as mentioned before CHANCES were you were either going to go broke or win a little bit of money.

The play on the turn once again goes back to the types of hands your opponent would call with out of the small blind and now call a bet on the flop with the A hanging out there. This would indicate to me several things. 1) He called out of the SB with AX suited or not, 2) something like AQ KQ KJ J10 QJ suited etc. At this point in time the only hands you really have to be worried about are the Kx suited cards for it has given your opponent the nut flush.
Now lets look at the betting patterns this far and try and correlate them to the action on the turn. First we will start with the Ax hands. He is very likely to call out of the SB with Ax. This would give him top pair with a good or marginal kicker. This would explain his preflop call of your raise and your bet on the flop. Now lets look at the turn. You bet $200 on the turn which I think is a nice bet for your hand. You now get reraised. Little scary I admit given your hand and this board. Lets work through the possibilities. His mini reraise when the 9 hits indicates one of several things to me 1) he hit the 9 whether it be for a set or two pair. Lets assume it gave him a set (not likely) Does this fit his betting patterns. NO! It fits his call out of the SB but it is a little ominious given the two over cards and three to the flush on the board. I think for a loose player calling with a pair of 9's with one being the diamond can be expected. Our other possibility and more probable is A9. Does this make sense given his betting patterns? YES! Called with top pair and now hits his two pair. When we look at your play on the flop you have indicated at worst an A and if he believes that you may bet the flush on the flop(not likely) then the mini reraise is a feeler bet to find out where his two pair stand. So from here A9 is a likely possibility.
2) He slow played two pair on the flop given the 3 to the flush(asking for trouble) AQ is a likely possibility here as well since it fits his betting patterns just like A9 or AxKd.
3) He hit the flush on the turn. This is also a very likely situation given the texture of the flop and his call out of the SB and his check call on the flop and now his check raise on the turn. When we analyze his mini reraise this also fits the betting pattern but someone at this level would tend to get excited and completely over bet the pot screaming I have the NUTS! Given the texture we can not exclude this hand.

In this situation I feel a very important question to ask yourself should be. HOW IS THIS ALL GOING TO PLAY OUT ON THE RIVER? If I call now and he puts the rest of his money in on the river am I going to call? This is when we need to go back through the analysis of the possible hands that he may be holding. For me there is just to much doubt that he has the flush already made. He could have A9, AQ or even AxKd which would give him top pair top kicker with the nut draw. There is just to much doubt given that you havent said anything about what type of player he is. If you feel that after you call his reraise on the turn and he pushes the rest in on the river that you will call (which given the situation will be the correct call $500 to win $1500 3 to 1 on your money given the range of hands he could be betting like this) then the best thing you could have done was to put in a big reraise on the turn not go all in because you dont want to scare away the hands you are beating and if he pushed back which with any of the above mentioned hands given the pot odds and his chip stack he should do then you call and all the guess work is out of it. It strictly becomes a mathmatical calculation.

I hope this has helped you.

Good Luck!

[SmackinYaUp]

Wow I appreciate the long response joker but I think a turn push will get called by flushes or higher sets only. Also, whats marginal about the preflop raise? Its good to keep people guessing, I want to see a flop with the pocket pair but yet don't want to open limp in a 4 handed game.